|
Post by SouthernCalGal on Mar 18, 2020 15:54:35 GMT -5
myrrh, I hope you are starting to feel better! LaMara, I heard an emergency room doctor from Boston, U.S. talking about wanting legal representation in the emergency room because of the decisions that he is going to have to make. He was imploring Attorney Generals in each state to look at this critical issue. He wants protection from lawsuit of his decisions. I thought how crazy this is that not only does he have to worry about saving lives, staying uninfected but now, protection from lawsuit in case he only has one ventilator available and has to decide which patient to put on it knowing the others won't survive. Scary... Stay well PD friends!
|
|
|
Post by LaMara on Mar 18, 2020 16:31:38 GMT -5
The only thing that I found more horrible than doctors having to pick who lives and who dies it’s the funeral issue. Since gatherings of people are dangerous, the relatives of those who died can’t really say goodbye. Not in the traditional way at least. Italy is largely a catholic country and funerals have a strong cultural importance, it must be absolutely devastating for those left behind to not be able to gather and follow tradition. On a slightly more positive note, finally the UK government closed down schools and started taking measures that in theory should support people with mortgage or rent to pay as well as businesses. I personally know a bunch of people who legitimately don’t know how they will pay rent and food if they have to stay home without working for longer than a couple weeks.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. BiPAP Sachin on Mar 18, 2020 17:49:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by darthoso on Mar 18, 2020 19:15:18 GMT -5
Ugh! Seeing a lot of hospitals cancel Spinraza injections.
|
|
|
Post by IcarusFellOnce on Mar 18, 2020 22:54:40 GMT -5
The sad irony is not lost on me that in 2018 the world spend on military was $1822 billion dollars ... yet on medical research it was $28.6 billion. When will governments (off all persuasions) stop trying to work out better ways to kill each other (us) and instead concentrate on the very real dangers to ALL global citizens ... mother nature is a far more dangerous creature and doesn't care if your a Democrat, Communist, Authoritarian or whatever creed. This pandemic is showing that, never mind what global warming is doing. I really fear for the future of my grandchildren. 😥 UNTIL we are so interconnected economically and maybe eventually politically.. and also in a distant future ethnically and culturally to where hurting others is akin to hurting yourself.
|
|
|
Post by devogirl on Mar 19, 2020 21:34:43 GMT -5
Ugh! Seeing a lot of hospitals cancel Spinraza injections. That is too bad but it's better to stay away from hospitals at the moment if you're not sick.
I just read this article in the New York Times, sadly it lines up with what I have been reading from other countries as well: misdiagnosed as flu for many days, while the person spread it around even more. Even worse, in the hospital he went to, staff were not fully prepared, and there was no contact tracing; it's left to individuals to warn their possible contacts and decide to self-quarantine. As I mentioned above, just because statistically more elderly people are dying doesn't mean younger people won't get seriously sick, meaning weeks in a medically induced coma on a ventilator. Please practice social distancing if you are in an affected area.
Oh and by the way the mods just got a warning from Proboards to watch out for sharing of misinformation on the board. So far it hasn't happened here (good job everyone) but please only link to reputable news sources. The New York Times and Washington Post have removed paywalls from most of their coverage so it's easy to stay informed.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Mar 19, 2020 22:49:01 GMT -5
I just read this article in the New York Times, sadly it lines up with what I have been reading from other countries as well: misdiagnosed as flu for many days, while the person spread it around even more. I don't see a way around this without widespread availability of testing. In its most common form it is indistinguishable from a mild flu for a week. Then it whacks you with breathing issues--but even then not in all cases. So the people without breathing issues never get tested and they spread it around for a couple of weeks. We should just be testing anyone with flu symptoms. But we don't have enough tests because it was not taken seriously until recently and because the pandemic team had all been fired.
|
|
|
Post by wonk on Mar 20, 2020 0:52:15 GMT -5
Ugh! Seeing a lot of hospitals cancel Spinraza injections. As I mentioned above, just because statistically more elderly people are dying doesn't mean younger people won't get seriously sick, meaning weeks in a medically induced coma on a ventilator. Please practice social distancing if you are in an affected area. Oh and by the way the mods just got a warning from Proboards to watch out for sharing of misinformation on the board. So far it hasn't happened here (good job everyone) but please only link to reputable news sources. The New York Times and Washington Post have removed paywalls from most of their coverage so it's easy to stay informed.
I have a friend who is convinced she is perfectly safe as she is only 39 years old. I sent her this link from The Sydney Morning Herald, probably Australia's most reputable newspaper. Saying that half the people in ICU in Paris are under 65. She responded with a Bloomberg Article saying 99% of people who died had comorbidities. First off is bloomberg reputable? As it is not well known here in Oz. The problem is there is so much conflicting information. I contacted my best friends sister inlaw who is an immunologist at The Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. She said while she is not on top of the latest "News" as she is working in a team trying to develop a vaccine. She did however stress that even if both of those articles are correct, that if the ICU beds are full, then anyone whatever the age or comorbidity, that needs to be intubated and can't be, will more than likely die. Please everyone take it seriously, not just for the PWDs, the sick and the Elderly, but to potentially save your own life
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 1:38:55 GMT -5
As I mentioned above, just because statistically more elderly people are dying doesn't mean younger people won't get seriously sick, meaning weeks in a medically induced coma on a ventilator. Please practice social distancing if you are in an affected area. Oh and by the way the mods just got a warning from Proboards to watch out for sharing of misinformation on the board. So far it hasn't happened here (good job everyone) but please only link to reputable news sources. The New York Times and Washington Post have removed paywalls from most of their coverage so it's easy to stay informed.
I have a friend who is convinced she is perfectly safe as she is only 39 years old. I sent her this link from The Sydney Morning Herald, probably Australia's most reputable newspaper. Saying that half the people in ICU in Paris are under 65. She responded with a Bloomberg Article saying 99% of people who died had comorbidities. First off is bloomberg reputable? As it is not well known here in Oz. The problem is there is so much conflicting information. I contacted my best friends sister inlaw who is an immunologist at The Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. She said while she is not on top of the latest "News" as she is working in a team trying to develop a vaccine. She did however stress that even if both of those articles are correct, that if the ICU beds are full, then anyone whatever the age or comorbidity, that needs to be intubated and can't be, will more than likely die. Please everyone take it seriously, not just for the PWDs, the sick and the Elderly, but to potentially save your own life The 99% comes from analysis of numbers coming out of China, 0.9% is the death rate for those with no other conditions. That's still kinda high but what I haven't seen is a distribution of that 0.9% by age.
But your friend still should be careful because she could give it to others who could die.
|
|
|
Post by wonk on Mar 20, 2020 2:13:43 GMT -5
Does anyone still believe the numbers from China???
|
|
|
Post by Corey on Mar 20, 2020 2:24:53 GMT -5
I have a friend who is convinced she is perfectly safe as she is only 39 years old. I sent her this link from The Sydney Morning Herald, probably Australia's most reputable newspaper. Saying that half the people in ICU in Paris are under 65. She responded with a Bloomberg Article saying 99% of people who died had comorbidities. First off is bloomberg reputable? As it is not well known here in Oz. The problem is there is so much conflicting information. I contacted my best friends sister inlaw who is an immunologist at The Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. She said while she is not on top of the latest "News" as she is working in a team trying to develop a vaccine. She did however stress that even if both of those articles are correct, that if the ICU beds are full, then anyone whatever the age or comorbidity, that needs to be intubated and can't be, will more than likely die. Please everyone take it seriously, not just for the PWDs, the sick and the Elderly, but to potentially save your own life Bloomberg is top of the line for business and economics, maybe not so much for other reporting. I seen something from the Korean CDC. It was an image on FB. I’m on my phone and am too stupid to figure out how to copy it. It doesn’t show anything on ICU, but says that only 3% of people who died were under the age of 50. So although this looks good for younger people, I agree with you completely that people should take it seriously. Intubation is not fun and you’re right, if someone needs to be intubated and they can’t because the hospital is full, they will die, whether they are an Old ass grandma or an NBA player. I’m 95% sure my coworker has the corona virus. He has been trying to get tested but I guess availability of it is low in the Bay Area. This is a healthy man, young, and it’s knocked him on his ass for over a week now.
|
|
|
Post by devogirl on Mar 20, 2020 3:19:21 GMT -5
I just read this article in the New York Times, sadly it lines up with what I have been reading from other countries as well: misdiagnosed as flu for many days, while the person spread it around even more. I don't see a way around this without widespread availability of testing. In its most common form it is indistinguishable from a mild flu for a week. Then it whacks you with breathing issues--but even then not in all cases. So the people without breathing issues never get tested and they spread it around for a couple of weeks. We should just be testing anyone with flu symptoms. But we don't have enough tests because it was not taken seriously until recently and because the pandemic team had all been fired. Yes, I agree! It's been a major problem even in countries with robust testing. What that means is that everyone who has even a mild cough or cold needs to take it seriously--stay away from other people. Don't go out in public thinking "oh I'm sure it's just a cold." You may be correct but there's no way to know until it's too late.
wonk I don't see how anyone can be reading the reports out of Italy and still thinking it's no big deal. But it is possible that both articles are correct. Younger people who are otherwise healthy are more able to survive intubation and mechanical ventilation, when those extreme measure are available. Personally I would prefer not to spend weeks in the ICU. And that's assuming you fall sick in a time and place where ventilators are still available.
|
|
|
Post by wonk on Mar 20, 2020 6:29:48 GMT -5
I looked at the article quoted by bloomberg, it was cherry picked. They used a small data set, and they considered anyone with any issue, even depression to have a comorbidity. The Italian government is saying 88%, I can find the link if necessary. But again you need to know the methodology, and the criteria they are using, but 88% does sound believable. Today a 36 year old Australian died in Iceland. He had coronavirus as did his wife, and originally the news said he died of pneumonia, now they are just saying it is atypical covid-19. There are lots of big conspiracies out there and the majority are BS, however you always have to question the motives of countries. Eg is Japan being fully honest when they still want to hold the olympics? Edit to add link re 88% www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/?
|
|
|
Post by devogirl on Mar 20, 2020 7:20:20 GMT -5
Oh no, the article is behind a paywall 88% what? Japan is not lying, they are engaging in wishful thinking about the Olympics. No conspiracy theories needed. Actually, it is the Japanese government and the Olympic Committee that is being stubborn about it. Polls say many (most?) Japanese citizens expect the Olympics to be canceled or postponed. It's still a mystery to me why Japan isn't seeing more cases like the EU and US. They have not been great about testing and quarantine but if the hospitals were being overwhelmed it would not be possible to cover up. They seem to have gotten some of the big hot spots under control.
|
|
|
Post by missparkle on Mar 20, 2020 11:25:56 GMT -5
Patient Zero in Italy is 38 years old, marathon runner, football player. He survived, but only after 3 weeks on vent. More and more doctors from Italy are sharing their stories, that they were sending wrong message from the beginning, it is not only old people with underlying conditions that are seriously threatened. They are intubating young people too, all the time. That's why it's so important to flatten the curve, so that IC capacities are not overwhelmed. If that's the case, it's not really important if you're young or old.
I feel at moments like seeing the shark in the ocean. Screaming "shark, shark", but people keep surfing on waves, enjoying and not giving a damn for warnings. The difference is that by surfing you jeopardize your life only, but acting irresponsible when it comes to this, you bring many others in potential danger, too.
I am not sure if any government is to blame. I'd like to believe they are all concerned for well being of their citizens and bringing decisions that they THINK is the best at the given moment. But the thing is, this is something that was not experienced before. The sad truth is many of them, governments, advisors, scientists, as many of us, too, were in denial "It's happening somewhere there, it could never happen to us, we are different". But it seems, for once, we are all the same, equally fragile in front of this shit.
|
|