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Post by kat on Jul 22, 2014 4:37:53 GMT -5
He's still manipulating you. "This is for you not me" is a big ol' guilt trip. You know that a few weeks of sleeping around is not going to fix this relationship. Everything AA said above is 100% true. Yes, a good relationship is hard to find, and should not be thrown away lightly. But this is NOT A GOOD relationship, according to everything you have posted here. You are not sexually attracted to him. You are certain marriage to him would end in divorce. You are already halfway out the door with this other para guy. Sex is not an insignificant reason to end a relationship. It is a MAJOR reason many relationships fail, not just devs, but all kinds of people. Sexual incompatibility is nothing to be ashamed of or deny. It is just a fact of life that must be accepted. You know what you need to do: take this time while he is away to find an apartment and move all your stuff out. It will be much easier now than when he is around. When he gets back, calmly and kindly explain that this is best for both of you. Then cut all ties, as AA said. Don't get suckered into co-parenting the dog, or other social excuses to keep seeing each other. Agree to radio silence, at least for a limited time (6 months, 1 year) if it makes it easier. I totally agree with everything you said devogirl.
Juno - I was reading through this thread and have come to the conclusion that, in my humble opinion, your fiancé is a chump!! Sorry for being blunt about it but how can any self-respecting man be with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him, doesn't find him attractive, etc. etc. It seems like you two have talked very openly about the things you are unhappy/unsatisfied with in the relationship, so he obviously knows that you would rather look elsewhere for sex, intimacy, whatever....yet, why is he still trying to keep the relationship together?!! Where the hell are his balls? If someone was to flat out reject me like that, the last thing I would do is go crawling back and try to make something work that is going to shit.
Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of your situation, only what you've disclosed in this thread...and I realize there's your fiancé's side of the story too, but based on what you've said, it seems like you need to get out of this messed up relationship and focus on yourself for a bit. Maybe you need some time to do you! be single for a bit and figure out what you really want.
I don't know about you...but I personally find it super unattractive when a guy has no backbone. Your fiancé really needs to grow a pair. I'm sorry, but sheesh... have any of you never been in a satisfying relationship where one aspect of it wasn't working? I just kind of can't believe the resolve and judgment that a lot of people here are approaching this with. This is not black and white. It's not like leaving him will guarantee her a relationship with 100% compability, either. And it seems like everyone is just choosing to ignore all the amazingly positive aspects of the relationship she's describing.
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Post by Cake on Jul 22, 2014 5:01:33 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything you said devogirl.
Juno - I was reading through this thread and have come to the conclusion that, in my humble opinion, your fiancé is a chump!! Sorry for being blunt about it but how can any self-respecting man be with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him, doesn't find him attractive, etc. etc. It seems like you two have talked very openly about the things you are unhappy/unsatisfied with in the relationship, so he obviously knows that you would rather look elsewhere for sex, intimacy, whatever....yet, why is he still trying to keep the relationship together?!! Where the hell are his balls? If someone was to flat out reject me like that, the last thing I would do is go crawling back and try to make something work that is going to shit.
Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of your situation, only what you've disclosed in this thread...and I realize there's your fiancé's side of the story too, but based on what you've said, it seems like you need to get out of this messed up relationship and focus on yourself for a bit. Maybe you need some time to do you! be single for a bit and figure out what you really want.
I don't know about you...but I personally find it super unattractive when a guy has no backbone. Your fiancé really needs to grow a pair. I'm sorry, but sheesh... have any of you never been in a satisfying relationship where one aspect of it wasn't working? I just kind of can't believe the resolve and judgment that a lot of people here are approaching this with. This is not black and white. It's not like leaving him will guarantee her a relationship with 100% compability, either. And it seems like everyone is just choosing to ignore all the amazingly positive aspects of the relationship she's describing. Absolutely agree with Katers. I can't help but find it pretty presumptuous to judge a guy you've never met and virtually no nothing about so harshly based on the account of one night where he broke down (which a good partner isn't supposed to to, ever, because breaking down makes you a selfish asshole?!?) and the fact that he doesn't just want to let go the person he most probably sees as the love of his live. I would never dare to call someone a manipulative chump based on that! Is he acting selfishly by begging her to stay? Maybe, but geezus, have you never felt the agony of the fear of losing the person you love most? I would think it's only human to be and act desperate in the face of such a prospect. Juno already explained in the very first post of this thread how much her relationship works wonderfully in so many ways - except for the physical one. You guys say "leave him, leave the house and leave the dog", as if those are just things, like a car or a stereo, and she doesn't want to just give those up out of convenience. On a side note, for some of us a dog is not a thing, but a family member. It shows that they have built a live together, and from what she says, a mostly great one. Being like "Stop wasting your time with that dude, your relationship is obviously shit, and the guy a selfish ass" is just so missing the mark. I'm not saying ending the relationship is the wrong thing to do, but I certainly think it't kind of impossible for anyone of us here to fully assess the situation let alone tell her what to do. End of rant.
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Post by devogirl on Jul 22, 2014 7:29:47 GMT -5
it seems like everyone is just choosing to ignore all the amazingly positive aspects of the relationship she's describing. Because in every post she says something that indicates that the relationship has no future: "inevitable divorce," "not a sustainable match" etc. The therapist she went to told her they need to separate. Presumably this was someone with professional training who got a lot more detail on the relationship than we have here. Also she's already met someone else and seems very excited about it. Those are not minor differences that can be worked out even with good communication. And like Ruth said, in a healthy relationship, you don't have to go through all these mental and emotional contortions to make it work. I don't believe there is the ONE. When I met the guy I would later marry, I never had a moment where I was like "He's the ONE!" But after we had been together for a while, I realized I was no longer white-knuckling my way through, worrying that he would break up with me or that I would get bored with him. Instead of growing panic, feeling either trapped or abandoned like in past relationships, it just felt good, and that good feeling got stronger and stronger the longer we were together. Look, I understand how wrenching it is to end a relationship. I went through it many, many times, and in most cases, I was like the boyfriend--hanging on to the bitter end, bargaining, guilt-tripping, anything to stay together. It upset me how often my relationships failed--why didn't anyone want to take the time to make it work? Why didn't those guys ever try? But it was always a huge mistake on my part to hang on like that. Those relationships all were terrible, it just took some time and distance to see it. Of course there are good things about this guy, otherwise they wouldn't be together in the first place, right? Hopefully. And of course separating doesn't guarantee the next relationship will be perfect. But it really is better to be single than to be stuck in a bad relationship. It's a lesson I had to re-learn over and over. Once you've made the decision to end the relationship, you only have two choices: fast or slow. I've tried both, and watched many friends go through bad breakups too. In the moment, you feel that slow will be better--you're so used to relying on that person for emotional support and companionship, it seems right to keep doing that, hoping for a gradual transition. But that rarely works out well. I know it's scary and painful, but fast is almost always better. That's what I was saying in my previous post--be brave and rip off the band-aid. It will be worth it in the end.
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Post by Peony on Jul 22, 2014 7:50:16 GMT -5
I know it's not clear cut at all...and of course, this is the internet, so that brings in plenty of other contextless aspects, but just wanted to add having a few big things that are difficult/slow/painful to work through with your beloved isn't really on the same level as one partner feeling a sense of inevitable finality that the relationship will end. To me, at least. Also...I don't see it as a machismo thing, but a possessive one...personally, if my partner intimated what Juno has to me, self-respect aside, what right do I have to try and keep him emotionally involved in something that will ultimately be to his detriment? I just don't think that's fair.
(Have you thought about pretending or role playing with him, would that work? Not my cup of tea, but could that be a potential salvage route?)
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Post by eva on Jul 22, 2014 8:14:39 GMT -5
Once you've made the decision to end the relationship, you only have two choices: fast or slow. I've tried both, and watched many friends go through bad breakups too. In the moment, you feel that slow will be better--you're so used to relying on that person for emotional support and companionship, it seems right to keep doing that, hoping for a gradual transition. But that rarely works out well. I know it's scary and painful, but fast is almost always better. That's what I was saying in my previous post--be brave and rip off the band-aid. It will be worth it in the end. I agree 100%. Fast is painful but allows to heal sooner. Slow is terrible because the person who has not yet processed that the relationship is over will hang onto any little thing that will feed the illusion of staying together and it's all the more devastating each time they have to face the reality of the situation, that it's over. I have also seen people leave slowly because they are guilt ridden more than they try to be supportive. You can still be friends afterwards, but some time without seeing or hearing from each other is necessary (that's my experience).
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Post by kivic on Jul 22, 2014 10:20:08 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything you said devogirl.
Juno - I was reading through this thread and have come to the conclusion that, in my humble opinion, your fiancé is a chump!! Sorry for being blunt about it but how can any self-respecting man be with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him, doesn't find him attractive, etc. etc. It seems like you two have talked very openly about the things you are unhappy/unsatisfied with in the relationship, so he obviously knows that you would rather look elsewhere for sex, intimacy, whatever....yet, why is he still trying to keep the relationship together?!! Where the hell are his balls? If someone was to flat out reject me like that, the last thing I would do is go crawling back and try to make something work that is going to shit.
Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of your situation, only what you've disclosed in this thread...and I realize there's your fiancé's side of the story too, but based on what you've said, it seems like you need to get out of this messed up relationship and focus on yourself for a bit. Maybe you need some time to do you! be single for a bit and figure out what you really want.
I don't know about you...but I personally find it super unattractive when a guy has no backbone. Your fiancé really needs to grow a pair. I'm sorry, but sheesh... have any of you never been in a satisfying relationship where one aspect of it wasn't working? I just kind of can't believe the resolve and judgment that a lot of people here are approaching this with. This is not black and white. It's not like leaving him will guarantee her a relationship with 100% compability, either. And it seems like everyone is just choosing to ignore all the amazingly positive aspects of the relationship she's describing. Agreed, there is no 100% compatibility with any life partner. There will always be compromise because that is what happens within relationships. It is very easy for each of us to say what you should do or what you shouldn't do, but ulitmately, it is a very difficult decision to make and sometimes when you get so many differing opinions, it makes your decision harder. Really, it's up to you, and as someone else has posted already, you have made up your mind. I believe that this decision shouldn't be rash, life choices make a difference in your happiness and general well-being. I have always lived by the rule that the quality of man and the value of my relationship is of utmost importance. All the other stuff can be worked around and worked on. It depends on what you prefer. I don't envy you this decision.
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Post by Dee Dee on Jul 22, 2014 12:32:47 GMT -5
Short question, Juno: do you love your fiancé? You cherish him, yes, he is special to you, yes, but do you really love him?
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Juno
New Member
Posts: 38
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: It's complicated
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Post by Juno on Jul 22, 2014 15:36:17 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 17:09:27 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything you said devogirl.
Juno - I was reading through this thread and have come to the conclusion that, in my humble opinion, your fiancé is a chump!! Sorry for being blunt about it but how can any self-respecting man be with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him, doesn't find him attractive, etc. etc. It seems like you two have talked very openly about the things you are unhappy/unsatisfied with in the relationship, so he obviously knows that you would rather look elsewhere for sex, intimacy, whatever....yet, why is he still trying to keep the relationship together?!! Where the hell are his balls? If someone was to flat out reject me like that, the last thing I would do is go crawling back and try to make something work that is going to shit.
Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of your situation, only what you've disclosed in this thread...and I realize there's your fiancé's side of the story too, but based on what you've said, it seems like you need to get out of this messed up relationship and focus on yourself for a bit. Maybe you need some time to do you! be single for a bit and figure out what you really want.
I don't know about you...but I personally find it super unattractive when a guy has no backbone. Your fiancé really needs to grow a pair. I'm sorry, but sheesh... have any of you never been in a satisfying relationship where one aspect of it wasn't working? I just kind of can't believe the resolve and judgment that a lot of people here are approaching this with. This is not black and white. It's not like leaving him will guarantee her a relationship with 100% compability, either. And it seems like everyone is just choosing to ignore all the amazingly positive aspects of the relationship she's describing.
I definitely don't think there's such a thing as a completely perfect relationship, and yes there needs to be compromise, sacrifice, etc., but how can it work when one person is willing to put in 1000% and the other pretty much has one foot out the door? You can have a satisfying relationship even if one part of the relationship isn't exactly working, but it seems that the sex issue is a huge problem (perhaps even the only real problem) in the poster's relationship. I'm not ignoring the positive things she's said about their relationship, but if you read her first post, she specifically points out sexual chemistry as being the big problem and potential cause for the relationship not working out and most of her post is about that, which is why I focused on that.
Re-reading my post, I apologize to you Juno as I believe my words about your fiancé came across more harsh/judgmental than I had intended. I just think what I said is probably what most of his guy friends are thinking/saying (if they know anything about the situation). Don't you get tired of pretending that the sex is good? Don't you miss having a legit orgasm? The euphoria of it all? I think sex is such an important part of any relationship (and I think you feel that way too from what you've posted), so it just blows my mind that it's totally missing from your relationship and it seems like you totally dread the thought of being intimate with your fiancé.
I know how hard it is to leave someone you care about so deeply, but life's full of hard decisions. You might feel like your world is crumbling around you, you'll be sad, angry, hurt, but human beings are resilient creatures! You will get through it and look back and realize how strong you were and that it wasn't the end of the world (even if it feels like it at the time).
If you two are meant to be together in the end, it will happen somehow, whether it be a month, a year, or 10 years from now -- if it's meant to be, you guys will find a way back to each other. The universe works in mysterious ways
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 18:27:55 GMT -5
Juno, I wrote something pertaining to marriage/relationship in another thread on here, the one kivic started on thinking about missing out on something. So I won't write too much here, you can maybe go read my post in the other thread.
I think it depends a bit though on how long you have been together, do you have children, what are your expectations...
I like to have sex and I have some weird interests and my husband doesn't have the same needs but what makes me happy also makes him happy so we figured out ways to come together sexually. My orgasmic capabilities do not come from penetration and so we found a good way for me and him to have our fun, and we do laugh in the bedroom...don't take it all too serious and as we were passionate lovers in the beginning years of our marriage many years ago, now we have grown together in other ways and I really believe I have found my true self now in my middle years...I had no clue when I was young..
I actually bought a book though last year, it was called "I love you but I am not in love with you"...I haven't read through the whole thing but what I did read was interesting and my husband was willing to check it out too, but we just haven't had a chance and we haven't needed advise lately...
I am sorry if I trailed off a bit but I guess I always believe in not giving up too quickly and unfortunately nowadays life is so fast moving in any way that holding on to something seems to die out so quickly, we always want new, better, faster, more passionate, more adventurous but the grass is not always greener on the other side...I really hope you can find the best solution for yourself and maybe be able to integrate your sexual interests in some way or another into your relationship...
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Post by Dee Dee on Jul 22, 2014 18:56:19 GMT -5
First off, I want to say that I find it great that so many devotees come together here to give advice to Juno and to talk about her situation. That is one of the true meanings of this message board. I can only say that I wish I had done the same when I was in a very similar situation as Juno - but simply did not post about it for fear that the disabled guy of my interest back then would go and read all I said and use it against me. So, Juno, I am glad that you have the courage to talk about the situation, because it needs to be resolved. Had the answer to my question about whether you love your fiancé been yes, then I would not have hesitated to suggest one or more of the following options: - Have your fiancé pretend for you, use role-play and figure out if it works and what works.
- Satisfy your devotee-needs with books, chats, films, videos, "dev-porn", writing, going to wheelchair sports events and so on.
- Arrange to have an open relationship, where you can pursue sexual, but not romantic, relationships with disabled guys.
Now, there is no doubt in my mind that your fiancé loves you deeply and wants your relationship to work. After all, and with much effort, he gave you the possibility of seeking out sex/meetings with disabled guys while he was away on work for three weeks. That tells me that he loves you and trusts you and wants you to be sexually satisfied. You know the old saying: "if you love something, set it free" ...
However, after my question and your reply, it does sound as if you are more great friends with him than partners and lovers. Honestly, I think your fiancé deserves to be loved too, and if this is not the case, then maybe it would be better to go your separate ways?
You do also need to think about this: you know what you have, but not what you get. That was the case for me too, and I ended up making the wrong decision. I threw myself into something that I thought would be an adventure but turned out to be a nightmare. What I am saying here is, you never know if you will actually meet another person who loves you just as much as your fiancé does. Neither do you know if you will meet someone who is as compatible as you and he are.
In any case, you should not rush into a decision and I do not think you will either. This is a very complicated situation indeed, but if I were you, and based on my many experiences with relationships etc., I think I would try one or more of the options I mentioned in the above.
One more important question: if your sexual frustrations could be resolved, how would this affect your feelings for your fiancé?
You are not alone with this problem, we are here to help. But only you can make the decision that is right for you in the end.
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Post by eva on Jul 23, 2014 2:15:17 GMT -5
Greeks have five words for love. I don’t remember them all, but I have the book somewhere. It starts from animalistic physical attraction through Eros to Agape, the highest kind of love there is, which is wanting the best for our loved ones, whatever it entails. This just to say that everyone is different and that there is no "one rule fits all" when it comes to relationships. We also go through different phases in a relationship, and the honeymoon never lasts long, because if you are to grow, both have to adjust to each other, and it’s not easy.
And then, there are different kinds of relationships. For some, building something concrete together is what matters most, and they make do with the rest. Others will concentrate mostly on the quality of their relationship and the intimacy they share. Other relationships will be based on friendship and companionship. You just have to find out what is most important to you and what works for you. Which means you have to know yourself quite well, and that comes with age and experience.
Honestly, I have very rarely seen a great relationship. Most people stay together for the wrong reasons, which can hold a relationship together for a lifetime. It is hard to grow together and not everybody can do that.
Some people don’t want to compromise forever, and I think they are the courageous ones. Those are the devs who talk to their husband/SO about their sexual orientation and work it out from there, those are the ones who leave an unsatisfying relationship and keep going after their dream. Of course, there is no garanty you will find The One, but there could be amazing encounters along the journey.
Finally, let’s turn it around : why don’t you set him free, Juno ? He is going to resist, cry and hold on, but eventually it can also lead him to meet someone else that may be more suited to what he has to offer.
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Post by ruthmadison on Jul 24, 2014 9:41:16 GMT -5
Have you ever read Eat, Pray, Love? Your situation reminds me of that a bit. She's married to a great guy and has the life that everyone is supposed to want, but she feels restless and she can't explain it. She keeps trying to force herself to be happy with this great guy. But she just can't. When she finally starts a divorce he is really upset and makes the process extremely difficult, but in the end he does find someone who is right for him and shares his life goals, while she finds someone much better suited to her.
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Juno
New Member
Posts: 38
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: It's complicated
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Post by Juno on Aug 7, 2014 14:05:56 GMT -5
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Post by Maurine on Aug 7, 2014 15:06:47 GMT -5
I'm so happy for you, Juno. The overwhelming feelings you describe remind me of the time when I was about to meet my bf.
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