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Post by mike on Jan 29, 2014 11:35:14 GMT -5
Peony,
While I agree with the majority of your post, I differ in opinion regarding the quoted statement. You say "No right minded doctor...", however consider the prevailing attitude towards surgical treatment of transgenders. Amputating a penis or removing boobs is a bit radical (to me anyway), and to me the difference with BIID is a matter of degree, not kind. If someone wanted a finger removed that isn't as big as if they want a leg removed, but at the end of the day, conceptually its the same thing. Of course the prevailing attitude regarding surgical treatment of people with BIID is that it is radical and wholly unacceptable, but remember it wasn't all that long ago when that was the prevailing attitude towards transsexuals, and in fact until the last couple decades homosexuality was illegal and would land the person in prison.
As far as true disability changing their mind, could the same be said of post-surgical transsexuals? (I don't know any, so that's pure conjecture on my part.)
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Post by janebluelightning on Jan 30, 2014 1:10:20 GMT -5
This brings up an interesting point. I don't believe I would ever be interested in being with a pretender. I am not so much into the apparatuses and the stuff that turns me on, you just can't fake. If I can't be with a disabled guy, I'd rather enjoy the particular benefits of AB sex (they do exist...) and save the dev stuff for fantasy. [/quote] Hey whoa! What's this you say? Benefits of sex with an AB over a double amp?? I've always just been told it's different. Never heard anything about these particular benefits. Of course being curious me, I have to ask right? I could say the same thing about different partners I've had. Some have been different than others. Some less than memorable....
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Post by AlrightyAphrodite on Jan 30, 2014 3:50:31 GMT -5
I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, so I'll keep it brief, but I will address the question. Actually, JBL, I'm an SCI dev myself, and as we are all subject to doing, I spoke of my own particular experience as if it were the general whole. I've never had the pleasure of sex with an amputee. With an SCI, there's usually some impairment of sexual function. In that case, you're just not going to get thrown up against a washing machine with your ankles behind your ears (you know, if you like that sort of thing...hypothetically). That's all I meant by "benefits of AB sex." As a dev, there are parts of sex with a dis guy that are extra intense, and if I'm honest, probably just better globally, but sometimes life just doesn't offer you that opportunity, to be with that kind of guy. There was a thread on here a long time ago (echoed in Darth's posts) about whether a dev might enjoy being with a pretender, so I was just responding to that. An aside, I apologize if I'm conflating BIID and pretending, my understand is that some people with BIID pretend, and some people who pretend have BIID (and some don't). To me, the two are clearly related, and as I stated earlier, I don't have any issues with the condition, BIID, but I occasionally will react to the adjacent behavior, pretending. It seems sensible to discuss them both on this thread, but if I've committed some sin of nomenclature, do feel free to chase me with flaming internet pitchforks. We now return to your previously scheduled topic
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Post by Peony on Jan 30, 2014 8:51:04 GMT -5
Peony, While I agree with the majority of your post, I differ in opinion regarding the quoted statement. You say "No right minded doctor...", however consider the prevailing attitude towards surgical treatment of transgenders. Amputating a penis or removing boobs is a bit radical (to me anyway), and to me the difference with BIID is a matter of degree, not kind. If someone wanted a finger removed that isn't as big as if they want a leg removed, but at the end of the day, conceptually its the same thing. Of course the prevailing attitude regarding surgical treatment of people with BIID is that it is radical and wholly unacceptable, but remember it wasn't all that long ago when that was the prevailing attitude towards transsexuals, and in fact until the last couple decades homosexuality was illegal and would land the person in prison. As far as true disability changing their mind, could the same be said of post-surgical transsexuals? (I don't know any, so that's pure conjecture on my part.) Yes, you are of course correct. I actually agonised a little with that statement, but didn't want to get into a bigger topic, and was tired when I wrote it, and as a result got lazy with my words. For shame. There are doctors who apparently will do procedures for people with BIID...there was a doctor in the UK who did a few before his hospital's board shut it down, and apparently if you are willing to pay for travel and medical costs there are doctors who will do it in Asia (only what I've read in internet hearsay, so not sure how accurate that is). I'd hazard a guess that most doctors would either laugh or shout you out of their surgery if you asked for anything permanent for BIID, though. However, 'right-minded' was also a slightly sloppy term too...highly relative! There is also of course the argument that in this case it's in the patient's best interest to sever or cut whatever, but that's a whole different kettle of fish that there is no black or white answer to. And to be honest I find almost all medical procedures involving cutting into anything pretty radical, even just the common boob job! I am in two minds about whether or not actual disability would 'change their mind'. One I can't really validate because I don't know what it's like to be disabled. From what I've read, I think those who have it badly would most likely accept it very easily, but others seem to be very aware that they would struggle. It's also none of my business in a lot of ways (which I acknowledge is a luxury, given no resources are being taken away from me), because out of everything, one of the most innate things each person has is that their body is theirs, and theirs alone, and no one else has the right to tell you what to do with it (except perhaps if you have children and you make yourself unable to care for them properly in any way). Just had to clarify
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Post by janebluelightning on Jan 31, 2014 12:06:41 GMT -5
This thread topic reminds me of the guy in the movie "there's something about Mary". The guy had an allterior motive for pretending to use crutches and braces.
I'm sure that children who pretend are expanding their minds. It's play time!
Now I know there are adults who like to "play" as well. Nothing wrong with role play. And that comes in many different forms. But to me, role play implies another willing partner or two or more...
When someone wants to dupe the public into being sympathetic or use the public to get their own satisfaction, it becomes a problem. I've known of at least one woman who faked a few different traumas. The worst part of it, was everyone was onto her. It was tragic to watch her over the course of several years. Jbl
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Post by rebel6842 on Feb 5, 2014 15:51:16 GMT -5
I admit to being new here-so while I was researching the dev topic, I ran across a few of the "freak show" websites with/for pretenders-and I admit that it scared me. Why would people WANT to do such a thing? We have it tough enough as it is...I'm just glad I'm here...
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Post by luvonwheelz on Feb 7, 2014 0:03:42 GMT -5
Peony, While I agree with the majority of your post, I differ in opinion regarding the quoted statement. You say "No right minded doctor...", however consider the prevailing attitude towards surgical treatment of transgenders. Amputating a penis or removing boobs is a bit radical (to me anyway), and to me the difference with BIID is a matter of degree, not kind. If someone wanted a finger removed that isn't as big as if they want a leg removed, but at the end of the day, conceptually its the same thing. Of course the prevailing attitude regarding surgical treatment of people with BIID is that it is radical and wholly unacceptable, but remember it wasn't all that long ago when that was the prevailing attitude towards transsexuals, and in fact until the last couple decades homosexuality was illegal and would land the person in prison. As far as true disability changing their mind, could the same be said of post-surgical transsexuals? (I don't know any, so that's pure conjecture on my part.) I apologize for replying to this so late, but it's been truly weighing on my heart and mind since I read it. I have quite a few friends that are transgender and I would feel remised if I didn't speak up. BIID is a Psychological disorder, with a long history of psychological cures. Surgical intervention is rarely approved. Transsexualism is a physical condition with an extremely long history of being misunderstood. One of those misunderstandings is the long-held assumption that it is a psychological disorder. This was disproven as long ago as the 1960s, when attempts to treat trans patients with traditional psychological techniques universally failed. Even you demonstrate that you do not understand what transsexualism is. The evidence is in all the times you say "cut off your penis" and when you insist time and again that it's a mental disorder. Anyone with even half a clue about transsexualism knows that this simply isn't true. Go read this: www.t-vox.org/index.php?title=Trans_101
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Post by mike on Feb 7, 2014 10:47:32 GMT -5
Where did I ever imply that?
That's pretty well acknowledged in the statement "(I don't know any, so that's pure conjecture on my part.)". The point was that I am sympathetic towards BOTH conditions, see strong parallels, and observe where society has tempered its views on one, but not yet the other.
Its not my belief that either condition is volitional, nor am I an expert on either. Please don't read criticism into my post, none was intended.
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Post by Emma on Feb 7, 2014 15:31:25 GMT -5
BIID is a Psychological disorder, with a long history of psychological cures. Surgical intervention is rarely approved.
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Post by dolly on Feb 7, 2014 23:25:46 GMT -5
i realize this thread was started to ask about "our" feelings on BIID, as members of paradevo who are primarily devotees and disabled dudes, but i thought i'd mention that ahiruzone.com is a site about BIID by people with BIID. it looks like they have a ton of information there and even a forum space. if people have questions or want clarification regarding BIID and what it's all about, you can find more relevant information there.
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lacey
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by lacey on Feb 8, 2014 6:44:46 GMT -5
I don't feel we have a right to judge people with BIID, just like I don't think the AB world has a right to judge any of us.
Unfortunately that's what humans do. Finding it here makes me feel a bit sad.
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Post by Valkyrja on Feb 8, 2014 9:46:54 GMT -5
Yeah, not a good topic to begin to talk again but, having a BIID friend, I felt "touched" by this one. I have no problems with BIID, pretenders, PWD, AB, Devs... (I guess I have no problems with anybody). I DO have serious problems with lie and dishonesty. And I Do have problems when ANY person lies or is dishonest (that includes BIID, PWD, AB, devs and pretenders). So, while the lie and dishonesty is out of the picture... why would we have problems with any person's choice or way to be? Wouldn't we be falling into the prejudice we say we hate so much? As always, that is just my opinion and it is not my intention to hurt anybody or be disrespectful.
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Post by Valkyrja on Feb 25, 2014 20:36:50 GMT -5
You are welcome!
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Post by BA on Feb 25, 2014 21:12:54 GMT -5
I also know someone with BIID who does not pretend. My heart truly breaks for him. He knows he is in the wrong body, just as a transexual does. The difference is that the transexual can be treated with hormones and finally, surgery. The person with BIID truly has no options. The medical oath is "first, do no harm". When making a male into a female or visa versa, a doctor is simply changing a gender assignment, not disabling a person. Cutting off an arm, leg or severing someone's spine is harm, no matter how much the person with BIID is suffering by having that functional body part.
I have read a bit about BIID because of my friend. Initially it was something I didn't understand, couldn't comprehend, and that made me pretty uncomfortable. I have also read about people with BIID who have had a limb surgically removed and they do NOT regret it. They feel finally 'normal'. It is a crazy thing. I spoke with a neuropsychologist about it, not long ago. He said that there are areas in the brain that do map associations with certain body parts.
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Post by Maurine on Mar 5, 2014 6:57:24 GMT -5
I'm hoping I'm in a "safe" place to post here. I wouldn't consider myself someone with BIID. I honestly do lean toward the fetish aspect of pretending. I'm fascinated with blindness and blind simming. Never gone in public, (though honestly the desire is there to want to, but somehow do it ethically I guess). I also don't consider myself to be creepy, but I understand the feeling of being dirty after the fact because I have these desires. It never quite lives up to what I have in my head because there is just the odd factor to it. I think I kind of understand this feeling. I've never pretended in front of other people but I find the idea both alluring and repulsive at the same time. I feel sexy in my boyfriend's wheelchair but I usually only dare sit in it when all the other (normal) chairs are taken and I probably couldn't use it in public. The repulsive sentiments I have towards it are too strong. All in all I'm not a pretender but I understand the feelings to a certain extent. When it comes to things like faking disability to hook up a dev or extensively exploiting someone's helpfulness, I'm less understanding.
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