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Post by nordic on Jul 30, 2017 4:11:38 GMT -5
If all pwd that receptionist ever met were on support, she might have the firm belief that this is "how things are". That's very close-minded but to be honest: How much can we really expect from average people living their average life without having friends or relatives with disability to know about disability? You can expect them to not be rude and belittling. Whether or not she firmly believed it, it's beyond impolite to say such a thing. The point I'm trying to make is that she might be so much stuck in her limited knowledge/belief, that it would never occur to her how rude or belittling her verbalized thoughts are. She might have simply never have had a chance in her life to reflect upon it, up to this point. I personally wouldn't hold that against someone, unless they refuse to reflect even after confronted with a new perspective. But then again, depending on situation and context, my forbearance has limits, too.
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2017 4:17:44 GMT -5
You can expect them to not be rude and belittling. Whether or not she firmly believed it, it's beyond impolite to say such a thing. The point I'm trying to make is that she might be so much stuck in her limited knowledge/belief, that it would never occur to her how rude or belittling her verbalized thoughts are. She might have simply never have had a chance in her life to reflect upon it, up to this point. I personally wouldn't hold that against someone, unless they refuse to reflect even after confronted with a new perspective. But then again, depending on situation and context, my forbearance has limits, too. That's a possibility. It's also possible she's one of those "just being honest" types and feels superior to all the wheelers coming in, even though she's just a receptionist.
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Post by wonk on Jul 30, 2017 4:38:50 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic which resonates with me, When I graduated from university I struggled to find any work despite being highly qualified. I was up against a negative perception from employers. Eventually a disabled friend of mine mentioned that there are only three available career jobs open to people with disabilities in the UK. They were: Lawyers, Accountants and Teachers. I because a teacher because one of the best teacher training colleagues within the UK was in my hometown: for mobility reasons it made sense. I have come to really love teaching, but I do dream of being a scientist sometimes. It may be different now in the UK, but that was my perception in the mid 1990s. Well become a freaking scientist! Never impose others preconceived limitations. I did a heap of unpaid or cash work in The US when I was there in 1996. Do what you love!!!!! I am sure I would have found work in the motorsport industry in the UK as well. I really never understand how people continue in jobs they don't like. The only reason I lasted 6 months doing accounting was there was a 6:1 female/male ratio at that university
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Post by lucretia on Jul 30, 2017 5:44:37 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to make is that she might be so much stuck in her limited knowledge/belief, that it would never occur to her how rude or belittling her verbalized thoughts are. She might have simply never have had a chance in her life to reflect upon it, up to this point. I personally wouldn't hold that against someone, unless they refuse to reflect even after confronted with a new perspective. But then again, depending on situation and context, my forbearance has limits, too. This part resonated with me. Sometimes I forget because I've traveled, lived all over and just seek out different experiences for the sake of the experience, regardless of my education, I have been exposed to a variety of people and circumstances. A lot of people, even well educated people, never leave a certain social or familial circle. You don't have to be dumb to be ignorant. And ignorance really is bliss for a lot of people. Even though I have deliberately distanced myself from some of my past interests and experiences, I still enjoy the chance to tweak perspectives. Sometimes, I get into a lot of hot water because I underestimate the depth of someone's belief system (regarding anything, not limited to religion). I simply don't understand rabid patriotism, for example. I'm not even talking about the US. It's astonishing that in today's world anyone would identify so strongly with a chunk of real estate or its inhabitants that they'd literally sacrifice relationships in a verbal defense of criticism. Astonishing. So regarding disability, it doesn't surprise me that a majority of people have no experience with any "successful" PWD. It's only been very recently that PWD have been "mainstreamed" into even basic life experiences. I remember when my little town didn't know what to do with blind twin girls. There WAS no alternative education, so they entered kindergarten with the rest of us. I couldn't tell you details because I don't remember any, but it was a big deal. My kids didn't even give a second thought about kids with disabilities, but that's because so much work has been done in just one generation. We have a loooong way to go. But let's not forget that those of us just a little older than the majority here were, for many parts of the world, the first generation to see PWD in school, at work, out in the world, etc. There's a time and a place for being a smart ass, of course. But just because someone's life experiences conflict with your reality, it doesn't mean they're being rude on purpose.
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Post by nordic on Jul 30, 2017 5:46:35 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic which resonates with me, When I graduated from university I struggled to find any work despite being highly qualified. I was up against a negative perception from employers. Eventually a disabled friend of mine mentioned that there are only three available career jobs open to people with disabilities in the UK. They were: Lawyers, Accountants and Teachers. I because a teacher because one of the best teacher training colleagues within the UK was in my hometown: for mobility reasons it made sense. I have come to really love teaching, but I do dream of being a scientist sometimes. It may be different now in the UK, but that was my perception in the mid 1990s. Well become a freaking scientist! Never impose others preconceived limitations. I did a heap of unpaid or cash work in The US when I was there in 1996. Do what you love!!!!! I am sure I would have found work in the motorsport industry in the UK as well. I really never understand how people continue in jobs they don't like. The only reason I lasted 6 months doing accounting was there was a 6:1 female/male ratio at that university Can we print this post on leaflets and hand it out to people on the street? I see so many good people - disabled or not - doing a job they absolutely hate with an according attitude. Results are predictable. If your heart isn't in it, it's just a chore and anything you do will be half-assed at most. I used to make this joke about not being able to work as a lumberjack. I'm sure that nowadays, there's some sort of exoskeleton or robot that would make it possible. Here's something you can turn into Facebook inspiration porn: Don't listen to people explaining to you why something isn't possible, unless you want to prove them wrong. - I suggest a green gradient or a panoramic sunset as background. Maybe a spelling mistake for good measure. It's still useful advice.
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Post by vegmama on Jul 30, 2017 12:51:20 GMT -5
Yeah, most people don't have the same exposure and mindset about PWD's as I/we do for sure. We are reminded of that on a regular basis and it gets frustrating. With that being said, neither of us were mean to her. Our sarcasm was between the two of us, she didn't see/hear any of it. Neither of us are confrontational people, and we wouldn't be snippy to someone unless they were being an absolute asshat. She was more ignorant than rude. Vocally ignorant, yes...but I don't think she meant what she said in a nasty way. If anything it was more patronizing. If that makes sense? That's why I vented about it here. I'm no Matisse.
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Post by newjess on Jul 30, 2017 13:47:58 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to make is that she might be so much stuck in her limited knowledge/belief, that it would never occur to her how rude or belittling her verbalized thoughts are. She might have simply never have had a chance in her life to reflect upon it, up to this point. I personally wouldn't hold that against someone, unless they refuse to reflect even after confronted with a new perspective. But then again, depending on situation and context, my forbearance has limits, too. That's a possibility. It's also possible she's one of those "just being honest" types and feels superior to all the wheelers coming in, even though she's just a receptionist. I agree with most of what has been said on all sides, but have to be nit picky about this one So she's not superior to the wheelers because she's "just" a receptionist? So if someone has a PhD then would you be more accepting of them acting like they are superior to wheelers? My guess is what you meant is that certain people act as though PWDs are less than, incapable of doing things, or they feel "pitty", etc. So, I agree no person is inherently better than any other PWD just because they are AB, but what does that have to do with her being a receptionist? The way you worded it is almost like you think the wheelers who come in are inherently superior to HER because she's "just" a receptionist.
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Post by lucretia on Jul 30, 2017 14:08:11 GMT -5
I'm also curious about the "just a receptionist" comment by matisse but I have met the guy and probably going to blow his cover by outing him as a genuinely nice guy. LOL I think we all do this, to some extent. Part of being human is an innate drive for superiority. Probably something biological. If we didn't have this drive, we wouldn't be at the top of the food chain. Thoughts?
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2017 14:24:07 GMT -5
LOL newjess and lucretia, that was an intentional I'm-better-than-you insult back to her with the broader implications you have pointed out, I was wondering if anyone would notice. If it's honest ignorance like it sounds that it was, then OK I wouldn't try to make her feel bad. But if she's judging me and I don't like it, I'm going to judge her back and that's the kind of implied insult she's going to get..... Lucretia I'm going to out you as well, as a genuinely nice AND sweet person......
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Post by newjess on Jul 30, 2017 14:38:56 GMT -5
Lolol I see what you mean matisse . Sometimes it's hard to read tone over text, but yeah if someone is coming at me as if they are better than me I'm sure I would have a few snarky remarks for them. Still don't know if I would consider using someone's job as a receptionist to be an insult I would resort to even if they were acting like they were better than me though . I guess I just don't feel like I'm surperior to a receptionist. I might feel annoyed at the PERSON acting like they are better than me just in general, but not because I think their job is beneath me... It's because I think they are being closed minded and disrespectful. I agree I think both you and lucretia are awesome and nice
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2017 14:48:58 GMT -5
newjess I don't know if I've said it here or only on WC, but I recognize that what I have been able to achieve I could not have done without just plain luck. In genes, in fantastic parents, in the fact that I was born here rather than another country that was less hospitable to wheelers, and other things as well. So no, I can't feel superior because I don't believe that anyone can achieve whatever they want. This is one of the reasons I've progressively become more of a bleeding heart liberal in the last decade. While there are lots of the lazy cheeto eating couch potatoes who don't deserve my taxes, there are also really hard working people who were just unlucky in their circumstances. I'm no longer willing to punish the former if it results in punishing the latter.
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2017 14:52:01 GMT -5
Still don't know if I would consider using someone's job as a receptionist to be an insult I would resort to even if they were acting like they were better than me though I absolutely would do it, fuck them.
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2017 15:08:18 GMT -5
newjess I don't know if I've said it here or only on WC, but I recognize that what I have been able to achieve I could not have done without just plain luck. In genes, in fantastic parents, in the fact that I was born here rather than another country that was less hospitable to wheelers, and other things as well. So no, I can't feel superior because I don't believe that anyone can achieve whatever they want. This is one of the reasons I've progressively become more of a bleeding heart liberal in the last decade. While there are lots of the lazy cheeto eating couch potatoes who don't deserve my taxes, there are also really hard working people who were just unlucky in their circumstances. I'm no longer willing to punish the former if it results in punishing the latter. So instead, just be demeaning and insult them based off their level of education and occupation? Not following your logic, but I'm not super duper smart. Yes. It's better than just saying "fuck you." If you wanted to insult them back, how would you do it?
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Post by newjess on Jul 30, 2017 15:14:46 GMT -5
Still don't know if I would consider using someone's job as a receptionist to be an insult I would resort to even if they were acting like they were better than me though I absolutely would do it, fuck them. Lol but what I'm saying is by using it as an insult you're essentially saying that being a receptionist is something that is "insultable". It's not that I said my earlier statement because I want to spare feelings, it's just I don't see why you would choose that as your retort. It's like if you were acting superior to me and the snarky comment I chose was, "haha um, this guy is freaking disabled and he thinks he's better than me". Like, why would I insult your disability? That doesn't really have to do with whether or not you're better than me. Similarly, why insult this person's job unless you really DO think the fact that she's a receptionist makes you better than her?
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Post by lucretia on Jul 30, 2017 15:25:26 GMT -5
newjess I don't know if I've said it here or only on WC, but I recognize that what I have been able to achieve I could not have done without just plain luck. In genes, in fantastic parents, in the fact that I was born here rather than another country that was less hospitable to wheelers, and other things as well. So no, I can't feel superior because I don't believe that anyone can achieve whatever they want. This is one of the reasons I've progressively become more of a bleeding heart liberal in the last decade. While there are lots of the lazy cheeto eating couch potatoes who don't deserve my taxes, there are also really hard working people who were just unlucky in their circumstances. I'm no longer willing to punish the former if it results in punishing the latter. It's official. I believe in aliens. Just kidding. I love this post.
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