Pwd + bathroom + hygiene

[jakethesnake]

Hello hello! PWD and DEVS one and all.

I have known about this website for a while. My ex--girlfriend told me about it. She is a dev. we used to read some posts together and have some good discussion.

im hoping to be a regular poster and will soon post an introduction of myself.

but i wanted to post something specific for my first post, something that i have been curious about, and something that recently came up...... bare with me i will try to make sense

im dating a girl right now who i really like and she likes me too but she has never been with PWD or know anything about PWD. so its been interesting because she has a lot of questions and curious about a lot of things, which i do not mind.

we are getting more serious..... so she has been asking more personal questions. I am happy because it means she maybe wants to be with me longterm and she just wants to know everything she is getting into.

today she asked me about how i use the bathroom and wanted to know ALL details.

for PEE: she saw i have catheters so she asked about it. i had to explain to her what they are for and i explain that if I wanna pee, EVERY SINGLE TIME, i have to use a catheter. I cant control it myself. I have to shove this catheter into my urethra and pee. she asked me what I do when i am outside. I told her in my bag I carry a lot of spare catheters to use. She wanted to see my bag-setup... so I showed her. My bag has a compartment that has my supplies: it has catheters, lubricanting jelly, wet wipes, and...... an empty bottle. I am a quad so i cant transfer myself or standup. so i usually have an empty plastic water bottle that i pee in. i slide forward and catheterize into the bottle then dump it.
..................... well let me tell you... she was downright discusted! she was trying to play it cool but i could see her eyes bulge out of her head.

for POO: i explained to her i have a bowel program that i keep to. every 2 days i go on my commode and i lubricate my latex gloves and i do DIGITAL STIMULATION. i put my finger up my bum and stimulate until the poo gets close enough 4 me to hook it and take it out.
......................... let me tell u this discusted her even more. she couldnt believe i put my finger up my butt every 2 days.


this has happened before with NON DEVS. they can usually put up with a lot, deal with a lot, but when they ask questions and want to learn mroe and we get to the bodily functions part... they are always shocked, unprepared and turned off!


so i want to ask you devs that question.... and please do not be offended.... this is life and im just being realistic.

for you DEVS who are into guys with spinal cord injury (or any other disability that affects bodily function) how do you deal with this? does it put you off that the person you are into can't poo/pee normally? that they cant control their poo/pee? that even though they are adults and active its only a MATTER OF TIME before the guy you are with who has SCI is gonna have an "accident" and poo or pee themselves?


also... ive been told this about friends.... and i agree..... when i hang out with friends at the rehab or play sports.....the disabled ppl who have higher disabilities very often have bad hygiene. i used to bring a friend with me when i play wheelchair rugby and he hang out and helps and stuff. one time he caught me off guard when i nthe car going back home he asked me "how come a lot of them smell like stale urine?" .... i paid WAY more attention after that and i realize its true for a lot of disabled ppl, their hygiene just is bad, mix in that they cant move, mix in that they cant spready their legs and AERATE their genitals, and you got a mixture of really bad smells that ferment. so for someone who is lazy and not active they can end up smelling really bad.

as a DEV have you been attracted to someone with a disability only to be turned off by their hygeine? have you dated a guy only to find out he has bad hygiene?

btw i know hygiene goes for EVERYONE ... not just disabled ppl.... but my point is for PWD if they are not DILLIGENT and ACTUALLY CARE they can end up smelling really bad and not even realize it.

would love to hear what everyone thinks about all that... any experiences from you PWD in having a GF who doesn't like that you catheterize etc?

[Inkdevil]

Hi newbie and thanks for posing an interesting question.

Firstly, since I have become an ‘out’ dev (for want of a better term) I’ve only ever dated SCI guys who have catheterised, intermittently or otherwise. Of course, at the beginning I was as curious as any other non-dev woman would be about the how, the when and the why. That applied also to the pooping process too. I was lucky to have someone to ask at that time who was open and happy to answer any and all questions for me.

I can say honestly that nothing I have seen or experienced firsthand has ever turned me off, but also, neither has any of it turned me on. I accept and understand that this is part of the package that comes with dating a man with an SCI.

In addition to the everyday processes, I also accept and understand that there will be accidents from time to time. It’s not enjoyable to have deal with this for either person, but if I’m with the right guy, I will happily muck in and get things cleared up with him so we can forget about it more quickly and carry on with our day. It’s not a deal breaker. It doesn’t alter my perception of him. He will never be <than.

In terms of personal hygiene, whilst I accept that it’s not always easy to be fully clean if you are staying in a place where you can’t access the shower, there is otherwise no excuse I can see for poor personal hygiene. I am super paranoid about my own body being clean. If I’m going to intimate with another person, I expect both of us to be fresh all over. Someone smelling of pee unless they have a damn good reason (see above) is a definite turn off!

Edit: I think the non-dev horror at the toilet processes is in line with that of a lot of ABs, who assume someone in a wheelchair is ONLY unable to walk. They don’t even consider what else their disability can affect. Bowel/bladder/ED etc.,

[dannyboy95]

Most Devs through their natural interest know a lot about all these things already so to most you wouldn't even have to explain. For me personally it is not something I find a turn on but I also know that if you're not very hygenic with all these things you'll get infections rly easily so most PWDs are very hygienical about these things. And when it comes to sex generally I prefer people to be freshly washed no matter if they use the bathroom normally ot use caths/enemas. I do generally not consider excrement related things to be sexy.

[lucretia]

I was interested in the process at first, but it was pretty neutral as far as attraction.

The newness wears off pretty quickly, though.

Regarding accidents, yes they happen. But if they happen a lot, or you know they happen every time you (transfer, shower, whatever), then I would be annoyed if the guy wasn't actively working on his b/b program to improve the situation.

Apathy toward personal care is a deal breaker.

Likewise with hygiene. A para has absolutely no excuse for smelling funky. Quads need to be sure their PCA is diligent.

If a guy regularly smells bad, that's a deal breaker.

Nothing regarding b/b holds any interest for me. It's neutral unless it's a problem, then it's a negative.

[Tom]

The topic of bowel and bladder care is a tough when it comes to your SO. Ive had a few non-dev relationships and only one partner was uncomfortable with the bowel and bladder stuff. Either they can deal with it or they can't which can be a bummer because its not as if we chose to lose function but nonetheless it has to be dealt with. Don't jump to any conclusions based off her initial reaction, I was grossed out myself when I first started having to manage my own bowel and bladder care.

Ive noticed the hygiene issue more common with people who have leg bags vs. those who cath intermittently. Even so Ive known people with indwelling catheters who have perfect hygiene. Regardless its up to the individual to make sure they're clean. It breaks my heart to know there are people out there who don't have access to caregivers who can help them stay hygienic, but I know some guys who do and still only choose to shower twice a week because they are lazy. There is no excuse for the funk! lol

[sungod]

As a quadriplegic, I haven’t had an experience like you described. I also try to be deliberate and tactful when I tell a woman about my bathroom routine. I’m hoping that you didn’t describe everything just as you told the story here. I could see a woman potentially be weirded out if your response to using # 2 is “well, every two days I get on the toilet and stick my finger up my butt.“ When I’ve been with a woman long enough that I start talking about these things, I will slowly broach the subject… Start with broad descriptions and let her ask questions as she feels comfortable.

I don’t have the Mobility to be able to self catheterize, So I wear a leg bag and have an automatic drainer. People usually think it’s awesome and hilarious that I can covertly pee in the bushes. Or on someone’s foot.

So again, if she is totally put off by your routine, she might not be the right one for you. It’s possible that she could warm up. It sounds totally normal for a quad, and you’re hygienic. Just keep chuggin.

EDIT: It’s also worth mentioning that it’s not like you’re asking her to be the one to take care of these things for you. If she can’t handle the fact that you do these things for yourself on a regular basis, that’s a problem.

[missparkle]

I am completely with sungod here, sorry, but you were too colorful! I mean why to approach the subject so detailed?! Even when it is about AB people going to toilette is not something that is discussed to every tiny tiny part of it, right?!

For me, and I believe for most of the devs, it is not turn on, nor turn off, it is just "normal". It is how you guys have do that stuff and that's it.

Even lying in bed next to a guy and "accidents" happen is "normal". It is what dev deliberately accepts as normality. It is not turn on, nor turn off, it "just happens". It can even in a way increase the feeling of closeness, because he is vulnerable at the moment, and she is supportive and understanding.

That is about being dev, you usually accept everything that comes in package, whatever that is.

And for the non-dev, I believe it can be "normal" as well, but it hugely depends on person and there is no generalization.

[matisse]

I don't understand the poop thing. I can understand how the digital stimulation gets your butt ready. But how do SCI guys actually get the poop out?

I'm glad your girl was honest in her reaction. If she's disgusted just by the description and seeing the supplies you use, then if she actually sees it or you need her help, it's going to be tough. My wife dislikes all that stuff more than the average person, but since my condition is slowly progressive, she has had a lot of time to gradually adjust. If she had to go from 0 to 60 from the start, I'm not sure she could have done it.

So as wheelers we have a trifecta of suckage. It sucks that we have to do these things.  It sucks that accidents are inevitable. And then, it sucks that it is inevitable that she will have to deal with some accidents.  Hopefully very rarely, but at some point she will.  My wife has had to clean up poop off the bed, put one of those enema laxative things in my butt, etc.  I have felt terrible when she has had to do these things.  It's these times of your complete helplessness and her doing these things that test a relationship, and I'm sure they have contributed a lot to the high divorce rates of after-marriage SCIs.

Maybe it's a quad-fecta, because of general daily hygiene.  Since we're sitting all day and can't move around as easily as ABs, by the end of the day our butt and junk are just always going to be more stinky than the average guy.  If anyone has any suggestions, I'd like to know them.  I shower every day and try to wear loose clothing, but I haven't found anything else that helps to keep things fresher for a little bit longer.  My wife, on the other hand, can go days without showering and still have a butt that I'm thrilled to kiss and otherwise bury my head in it.

[lucretia]

Feb 13, 2018 16:52:34 GMT -5 matisse said:

I don't understand the poop thing. I can understand how the digital stimulation gets your butt ready. But how do SCI guys actually get the poop out?

I'm glad your girl was honest in her reaction. If she's disgusted just by the description and seeing the supplies you use, then if she actually sees it or you need her help, it's going to be tough. My wife dislikes all that stuff more than the average person, but since my condition is slowly progressive, she has had a lot of time to gradually adjust. If she had to go from 0 to 60 from the start, I'm not sure she could have done it.

So as wheelers we have a trifecta of suckage. It sucks that we have to do these things.  It sucks that accidents are inevitable. And then, it sucks that it is inevitable that she will have to deal with some accidents.  Hopefully very rarely, but at some point she will.  My wife has had to clean up poop off the bed, put one of those enema laxative things in my butt, etc.  I have felt terrible when she has had to do these things.  It's these times of your complete helplessness and her doing these things that test a relationship, and I'm sure they have contributed a lot to the high divorce rates of after-marriage SCIs.

Maybe it's a quad-fecta, because of general daily hygiene.  Since we're sitting all day and can't move around as easily as ABs, by the end of the day our butt and junk are just always going to be more stinky than the average guy.  If anyone has any suggestions, I'd like to know them.  I shower every day and try to wear loose clothing, but I haven't found anything else that helps to keep things fresher for a little bit longer.  My wife, on the other hand, can go days without showering and still have a butt that I'm thrilled to kiss and otherwise bury my head in it.

You shower frequently, though.

Seriously. You'd be surprised and disgusted how many guys who NEED to shower frequently DON'T. Like taking a shower is something that only needs to happen a few times a week, and really just one really thorough one and maybe just a rinse off... Ugh...

Also, I've seen poop stains on cushions, shit on wheelchair frames... God. I could go on...

Basically, men are gross. LOL

[bowlergrl0524]

I have never really dealt with any hygiene issues with my guy. He's always clean and well taken care of. I knew going in about his catheter and we discussed how he (his aides) do his bowel program. As devs, it neither a turn on or turn off. It just is. I have a lot of stomach issues, so I was open and honest about that as well.

We have not dealt with a bowel accident together yet, but it will happen at some point, I know that. Urine accidents happen also, but it's just w/e. He gets cleaned up, and we go back to our day. Bladder issues usually come as a result of a blockage of some type with the catheter. So, it's not like you guys do any of it on purpose.

Honestly, the first time I spent the night with him, it was very overwhelming for me, taking in everything that was involved. I cried. Which isn't unusual for me. But then we talked about it, and i knew that everything was OK. I knew it all along, but I needed to talk it out and process it all.

[matisse]

Feb 13, 2018 22:50:46 GMT -5 @tc123 said:

matisse , the digital stimulation itself helps relax the sphincter which helps the stool move down on its own, but there are also “hooking” techniques which is basically just hooking your finger on and pulling it out. Plus a lot of people use suppositories to help the process before the actual digital part which are also supposed to help stimulate that movement, at least that’s what most learn to do in rehab.

Well at the risk of talking about poop too much....I still don't get the hooking and pulling. I guess in my mind the poop seems too soft for any hooking or pulling. I guess not?

I think for wheelers, urine is pretty much a nothingburger. Not that it's ok to have it everywhere, just that it's easy to deal with and if you deal with it immediately it is sterile, no?

[midwestguy]

I’m curious how old your girlfriend is because it seems like a very immature reaction. Or maybe it’s a cultural thing. But anyways you’re not asking her to do it you’re just telling her about it. It’s a shame she can’t be a little more open-minded and understanding.

As far as hygiene goes, yeah that’s just gross if you’re smelling like piss all the time or have BO and greasy hair.
I’ve posted this before somewhere, but it really annoys me to see a sloppily dressed wheeler. People already have enough negative preconceptions about us so don’t add to it by looking like a slob.

[mona]

I have never thought about that issue before but it was brought up in the French film "Patients". The director who has had an SCI himself found a humourous and at the same time stark tone to address it.

I've grown up with animals and kept from that a pretty natural perspective on excrements. I would definitely not be discusted. And even if I was I would be far too polite to show it. Honestly, no matter how old she is, I think that girl lacks some good manners.

EDIT: I just realized it's Valentine's day and especially on a day like that I shouldn't have written something judgemental about your potential girl-friend, jakethesnake. I don't know her nor have I been in a similar, probably a little overwhelming situation so I shouldn't have made that comment. My apologies and I hope you both will get over that first reaction soon.

[devogirl]

Agreed that her reaction was very immature. Why did she ask for all the details if she didn't want to hear about it? Anyway if she ever has kids she will have a lot more familiarity with bodily fluids, not to mention the whole pregnancy and childbirth process. It's just part of life for everyone. If you're with an SCI guy, it's something you deal with as necessary and try not to make your partner more self-conscious about than he already is.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2018 23:57:59 GMT -5 midwestguy said:

I’ve posted this before somewhere, but it really annoys me to see a sloppily dressed wheeler. People already have enough negative preconceptions about us so don’t add to it by looking like a slob.

Totally one of my pet peeves. I put in a pretty significant amount of effort to look presentable and every time I see a PWD dressed like a fashion icon from the nursing home, it makes my skin crawl. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

As to the original post, I cringed a little when I read it. Anyone here that's ever talked to me will agree (I hope) that I'm as open as possible about my life and how I live it. I'm not ashamed or embarrassed because I need bladder and bowel care. But I also don't feel the need to go through every nuance with a fine toothed comb. In my last significant relationship, for example, I'm sure she knew how things in the bathroom went down but it wasn't something we talked about. Just like I didn't ask her about her shitting technique. I knew she did it and that was enough for me. If I was to rely on someone to help me out in that regard, we'd obviously have to have that conversation but otherwise I think a little mystery can go a long way.

The smell/hygiene thing is something I've dealt with. Like when I have a bladder infection, I have to make sure to change out my leg bag more often and be vigilant with my cna that not even a single drip is acceptable. And I recently changed from my long time cna and had to have the awkward conversation about hygiene. That's what it boils down to a lot of the time - the willingness to have that conversation. Basically, "wash my fun parts better." A couple years ago, my skin in that area was starting to get a bit funky and the obvious solution was more fresh air. So after every shower, I lie in bed under my ceiling fan with my legs spread open "froggie style" and let things dry. As I'm lying there, I also make sure to move things around so everything gets some air. Again, it requires effort but EVERYTHING in this life requires us to put in more effort than most just to have a chance at a quasi-normal life.