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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 13:18:16 GMT -5
brinzerdecalliYou didn't offend me and I just wanted to make a general post prompted by recent discussion in the other thread. When I say "listen" of course on a forum I mean this in more of a way of "reading". A forum can't work without writing things and offering view points and different perspectives. As for fetishes, I am well aware of fetishes and kink communities and exactly because I know and have my own off the norm interests and interact with like minded fetishists, I don't consider my interest as a dev a fetish. Fetishes for me are based in a sexual nature or sexually fueled. A lot of times it leads to some kind of sexual act, sexual interaction, or arousal. That's why I separate fetish from devness. No hard feelings and no offense taken, just offering my views.
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Post by Amee on Dec 18, 2019 13:32:41 GMT -5
Just to add that I absolutely do not accept that my devoteeism is a fetish. Given that there is no attraction to a specific item and there is so much more to it than the actual disability I do not believe it fits the definition... "FETISH A form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc." I consider it an orientation and am happy to accept the argument that it is an attraction. R. I wouldn't describe my devness as a fetish, either. When I googled fetish a while back I found some definitions that stated that for a fetishist, sexual gratification cannot be reached without the "object" of the fetish. That isn't true for me (I don't necessarily need "dev thoughts" for gratification). But the definition you posted here seems at least a little closer to the sexual aspect of my devness (which is not the only aspect, but certainly an important one). For me at least, (sexual) gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to disability. In that sense, it could possibly be correct for me to say that there is at least a "fetishistic" element to my devness? Still really dislike the term though... The thing that always throws me a bit, when trying to see if devness could be viewed as a fetish, is that many devs have an attraction to many different disabilities. It feels very weird to me, for example, if a person finds blind guys, deaf guys and guys with SCI attractive, how you could condense that into one fetish. Blindness, deafness and SCI have almost nothing in common, except for some vague and abstract non-visiual ideas behind them. But can you "fetishize" some vague and abstract idea? So... can you even really "fetishize" disability as such, since it is such a broad and abstract thing? I really have no knowledge whatsoever about fetishes, so I don't know if fetishes are often that broad and vague, but somehow in my idea about them, they're more concrete. It makes sense to me that one could fetishize, say, atrophied legs or muscle weakness as such. But for many (most?) devs and certainly for myself, that's not what it is. Although I do find the way in which the body of a guy with SCI is different intruiging and attractive (and I do acknowledge that there is perhaps an element there that could be described as fetishistic - in the same way that one could say straight guys fetishize breasts), that doesn't explain why I can also find blindness and deafness attractive (even if to a lesser degree). Long story short: Maybe my definition of fetish is off, but could one even describe something as a fetish, when it includes such entirely different disabilities as blindness, deafness and SCI (random examples)? And I'm curious: I never understood what exactly you guys mean by orientation? What is the definition? And what would you say is the difference between an orientation and an attraction?
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Post by robbb on Dec 18, 2019 13:59:06 GMT -5
I would say I am orientated towards men but attracted to certain men.
Or orientated towards paraplegics but attracted to certain paraplegics.
R.
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Post by missparkle on Dec 18, 2019 14:06:44 GMT -5
A sincere curiosity, being someone involved in fetish/kink communities and a lot of the things of why devs are not fetishes or don't like the word devotee are shared among many fetish communities about the word fetish for what they feel. I was trying to understand what word is more appropriate while not allowing people to assume or dismiss the dynamics and depth of a fetish community, and perhaps take this understanding to the way I speak about and in those communities as well. As long as you stick to the field you are familiar with, "fetish land", its terminology, definitions, labels, role play and are not willing to step out from its borders you'll fail to understand. If you want to understand the feeling.
But I read you are only interested in a word - "I was trying to understand what word..." I'd prefer you were trying to understand how we feel.
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Post by Amee on Dec 18, 2019 15:30:56 GMT -5
I would say I am orientated towards men but attracted to certain men. Or orientated towards paraplegics but attracted to certain paraplegics. R. Does that mean you can only be attracted to paraplegics? Somehow orientation to me implies exclusivity, but I'm not sure, if that's correct. I just googled sexual orientation and here's what Wikipedia says: "Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender. These attractions are generally subsumed under heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality, while asexuality (the lack of sexual attraction to others) is sometimes identified as the fourth category. These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity and terminology. For example, people may use other labels, such as pansexual or polysexual, or none at all. According to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation "also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions". The term sexual preference largely overlaps with sexual orientation, but is generally distinguished in psychological research. A person who identifies as bisexual, for example, may sexually prefer one sex over the other. Sexual preference may also suggest a degree of voluntary choice, whereas the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is not a choice." Hmm... I suppose for me personally the best/closest descriptor would be "romantic preference". It's a preference, not an exclusive thing and while not all aspects of it are sexual, I think I could describe them all - in one way or another - as "romantic".
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Post by pam on Dec 18, 2019 16:11:56 GMT -5
I dont know what my attraction to PWDS is called and I'm not sure I care a whole lot. Although I would not call it a fetish. In my younger years it was a mystery which I did not understand and basically thought I was really weird for having it. Now that i know all about devs, I would say it is an attraction/preference, that I was actually really excited to learn about.
But all my life it has been a comfort as I have had many wonderful, long daydreams about having a relationship with a PWD. Most of the time these do not include sex. They include getting to know and fall in love with a PWD. So as we have said before, it is a heart feeling, a very special feeling that I cherish. Having sex with a PWD would not satisfy me. Only a relationship and love would satisfy me (if I was single).
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Post by LaMara on Dec 18, 2019 17:17:09 GMT -5
I have spent a significant amount of time lately trying to decide if I should write a thread or not on PD but I guess this post is as good a place as it gets... I don’t think of being a dev as a fetish because, simply stated, I don’t think it is sexual for me and I’m actually slowly coming to the conclusion that I’m likely to be asexual. I’m still not sure about the definition of asexuality when applied to myself but I’m unlikely to ever really want to have sex with a PWD, even though I do have idealised fantasies about it. Sex always played such a tiny part in my attraction to PWDs: it’s emotional, it’s aesthetic, it’s a lot of things. I’m also not sure what that means in terms of romantic relationships: I am in a romantic ace relationship with an AB partner and it feels... off. I’m wondering if it’s the AB factor that doesn’t work or if it’s just one element. I wonder if I would feel more comfortable in a relationship with a PWD... I did date a PWD for a brief time and I was a little more comfortable and relaxed, and there was a small element of sexual attraction but very minor, mostly just me trying to make him happy. But I guess at this point it would be better to just stick to fantasy because even for a “regular” dev finding the right person is like finding the famous needle in the haystack. Finding the right person who is also ace or willing to be in an ace relationship would be pretty impossible. Sorry if I derailed the thread a little bit but I really needed to get this off my chest and see if it resonates at least in part with any other dev. I already felt like the odd one out when compared to “normal”, non dev people, now I feel the odd one out here as well.
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Post by robbb on Dec 18, 2019 17:59:49 GMT -5
Does that mean you can only be attracted to paraplegics? Somehow orientation to me implies exclusivity, but I'm not sure, if that's correct. I would say for most people orientation and attraction have fairly blurred edges. As far as my devoteeism goes yes pretty much only paraplegics but not absolutely. While accepting that devoteeism isn't mentioned in that definition I think my interpretation of devness as an orientation is pretty much covered by it. Or at least my interpretation of MY devness. R.
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Dec 18, 2019 18:18:44 GMT -5
Having sex with a PWD would not satisfy me. Only a relationship and love would satisfy me (if I was single). For myself, I would have to disagree with you. Sex with a PWD would be a dream come true for me and would definitely satisfy me . A relationship and the potential love part would satisfy and be a bonus if it happened. But, isn't it like that with any relationship?
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Post by missparkle on Dec 18, 2019 18:23:06 GMT -5
Cleaning the skeletons out of the closet day for few of us! LOL Dear LaMara , I was carefully reading what you wrote and although I can not relate, I feel deeply for you. Obviously it is something that is bothering you and I applaud to you for getting out with it, it probably took a lot of guts. I can offer you my personal experience and advice, but I am not sure if it is, and how, applicable in your case. Only turning my fantasies into real life experiences brought me peace with myself and that part of me. Everything was of course pretty much different than my idealized fantasies, something was better, something was worse, but one thing is very precious - they were REAL. Those experiences helped me to put my devness on the place where it deserves, not too low, nor too high on my personal scale of priorities. Therefore I would suggest you go out and explore that side of yourself. I believe there is nothing to lose, from your post I read you are not happy at the place you are now. Move, whatever direction. Whatever you find about yourself, being it that you are ace-dev or not, it doesn't matter, you'll come to conclusion, you'll learn something about yourself, you'll put yourself at ease. If there is a perfect pwd for you, what are the chances?! Probably very, very slim, as for many of us, who are with, or will finish with ab guys. And it's ok. But you have to know who you are, you have to live happily ever after with that one person - yourself!
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Post by LaMara on Dec 18, 2019 18:48:23 GMT -5
Thank you missparkle, I really appreciate your words! And I’m always delighted when I see the support devs give each other. Though I don’t think it would be practical and enjoyable for me to explore my fantasies in real life, because I know for a fact it would be unpleasant, impractical or even painful for me. They only work as fantasies, I have zero interest in putting them in action. I also can’t even consider intimacy without deep romantic involvement. So hooking up to explore is a complete no. Atm I am in a relationship, it’s not perfect but at least I am loved and understood. My dilemma is, should I give up on it just because it doesn’t match my imaginary relationship with a PWD? Which is almost certainly never going to happen irl? This is off topic so I’m gonna leave it at this but honestly I would welcome advice from devs...
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Dec 18, 2019 19:01:54 GMT -5
LaMara, I have battled with that question myself.
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Post by IcarusFellOnce on Dec 19, 2019 0:48:43 GMT -5
I would say I am orientated towards men but attracted to certain men. Or orientated towards paraplegics but attracted to certain paraplegics. R. Does that mean you can only be attracted to paraplegics? Somehow orientation to me implies exclusivity, but I'm not sure, if that's correct. I just googled sexual orientation and here's what Wikipedia says: "Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender. These attractions are generally subsumed under heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality, while asexuality (the lack of sexual attraction to others) is sometimes identified as the fourth category. These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity and terminology. For example, people may use other labels, such as pansexual or polysexual, or none at all. According to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation "also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions". The term sexual preference largely overlaps with sexual orientation, but is generally distinguished in psychological research. A person who identifies as bisexual, for example, may sexually prefer one sex over the other. Sexual preference may also suggest a degree of voluntary choice, whereas the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is not a choice." Hmm... I suppose for me personally the best/closest descriptor would be "romantic preference". It's a preference, not an exclusive thing and while not all aspects of it are sexual, I think I could describe them all - in one way or another - as "romantic". THIS!!!
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Post by IcarusFellOnce on Dec 19, 2019 1:20:55 GMT -5
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brinzerdecalli
Full Member
I hope to encounter some interesting and uniquely minded people.
Posts: 217
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled Male
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by brinzerdecalli on Dec 19, 2019 11:29:55 GMT -5
A sincere curiosity, being someone involved in fetish/kink communities and a lot of the things of why devs are not fetishes or don't like the word devotee are shared among many fetish communities about the word fetish for what they feel. I was trying to understand what word is more appropriate while not allowing people to assume or dismiss the dynamics and depth of a fetish community, and perhaps take this understanding to the way I speak about and in those communities as well. As long as you stick to the field you are familiar with, "fetish land", its terminology, definitions, labels, role play and are not willing to step out from its borders you'll fail to understand. If you want to understand the feeling.
But I read you are only interested in a word - "I was trying to understand what word..." I'd prefer you were trying to understand how we feel.
You must understand, learning about how someone feels is one thing, but a large portion of the conversation has been on what label or word most applies and feels most correct. If you don't look outside of devotee groups and into other communities you are not looking at the whole picture. Many don't like or agree with it, but at this time being a devotee is akin to a fetish or kink by the popular use of the word. I think this roots from a gross misunderstanding that it is specifically a concept of sexual fantasy or experience. Yet this same misunderstanding is around kink/fetish communities. Many do not even like those labels either and feel they don't explain the emotional, intellectual, and lifestyle aspects of the community. It says that there may be more similarities here than most people want to see. No? I would challenge people to consider that devotees may actually live in "fetish land" but it is a far nicer place with rich soil and breathtaking flora and fauna and it's a much larger land with a very diverse population, unlike what people say when they talk about it. I will admit I don't don't post on "how people feel" because I can't add anything to that conversation, but how I feel or someone I know says they feel. Also, isn't it a bit of an excessive task to try to understand how every stranger feels, assuming that is not your choice hobby? It seems everyone feels something different so best not assume when you meet someone new. This is the way I have always approached meeting new people on here or in real life Please tell me if I made any assumptions when talking about any individual! I really do my best effort to try not to!
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