Phil
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Phil on Apr 1, 2010 12:01:35 GMT -5
I think it's pure profiteering fueled by greed.
There are a very small select few that can afford a $55,000 van and the market caters to that population. Everyone else can go pound sand up their collective a$$es, because "We have the product and you need it. Pay our price or stay home." Some can pay the price and they do, and there's enough of them to satisfy the market. Everyone else can go to Hell.
I'm using vans as an example, but it's the same across the board with everything. We have it, you need it, pay up.
I took my van over to a body shop owned by my best friend a few years ago for some minor work. He just happened to have an IMS conversion van up on the lift for repair work. It was a new Toyota. He started showing me things on it... welds on the lowered floor done by IMS that looked like Ray Charles did them, wiring done wrong, no undercoating or paint on bare metal beneath the van (IMS are made in Arizona and never see snow, but it was a year old & already rusting), fiberglass body parts misaligned, loose hardware, etc. The conversion shop wired everything on this van with the same color (yellow) 18 gauge wire while hacking up the OEM wire harnesses. Tons & tons of yellow wire under the dash, under the body, etc. It looked like a bird's nest on steroids. Yellow must have been on sale that month.
He's done a few of these vans from different manufacturers and they're all the same - pieced together junk with poor welds & inferior workmanship/parts. Is that a $55,000 van? Hardly, when they're paying some $8.00 an hour flunkies to do the work.
People can point fingers all day long, but the bottom line is that workmanship like that is inexcusable. They take the cheapest parts and find the cheapest labor and slap these things together on some makeshift assembly line... then charge outrageous prices for it. And they get away with it because there's no other options. You most likely can't build your own van or wheelchair or whatever.
We have it.
You need it.
Bend over.
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Post by Triassic on Apr 1, 2010 13:12:19 GMT -5
i admire ayn rand for her stand against state communism, and i certainly do agree w/her that the actual visionaries, the makers and doers of a society are entitled to be well rewarded for theirr activities...
...but she was just so naive in some ways. it's like she believed that these Doers, these 'industrialists' were constitutionally incapable of venality or dishonesty-that if we just let them do as they pleased, the Best Possible World would follow automatically.
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Post by E on Apr 1, 2010 13:21:22 GMT -5
I'm having my hip surgery on Monday.
I paid today.
My out of pocket costs, my 20%, for the procedure were $824. This, of course, doesn't include all the appointments, tests, etc. I went through leading up to today.
I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't have an extra $824, especially after being laid up/distracted/out of work due to the ailment they're paying to fix.
I really wonder what those people do. If I didn't have the money today, would my surgery be canceled?
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Post by Sova on Apr 1, 2010 13:33:14 GMT -5
Having to pay ANYTHING for surgery, appointments, tests, x-rays, etc. is such a foreign concept to me. I can't even fathom the idea.
I definitely don't wanna start up another healthcare debate. I'm just saying, it's weird for me to imagine that scenario
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Post by E on Apr 1, 2010 13:39:34 GMT -5
Today I found a Tapas recipe book for $4.95!!! THAT made me HAPPY  Tapas are my favorite genre of food. |
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Post by Lord Chatterley on Apr 1, 2010 14:01:58 GMT -5
I'm having my hip surgery on Monday. I paid today. My out of pocket costs, my 20%, for the procedure were $824. This, of course, doesn't include all the appointments, tests, etc. I went through leading up to today. I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't have an extra $824, especially after being laid up/distracted/out of work due to the ailment they're paying to fix. I really wonder what those people do. If I didn't have the money today, would my surgery be canceled? As Tri once rather aptly put it, surgery is often a case of courting bad juju, but, in this case, I would have made the same decision - so good luck!! |
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Post by Lord Chatterley on Apr 1, 2010 14:28:59 GMT -5
i admire ayn rand for her stand against state communism, and i certainly do agree w/her that the actual visionaries, the makers and doers of a society are entitled to be well rewarded for theirr activities... ...but she was just so naive in some ways. it's like she believed that these Doers, these 'industrialists' were constitutionally incapable of venality or dishonesty-that if we just let them do as they pleased, the Best Possible World would follow automatically. Gail Wynand was one of the 3 main characters in The Fountainhead was he not? In Atlas Shrugged she gave us the unforgettable spectacle of Jim Taggart, Wesley Mouch, Dr. Blodgett, Orren Boyle, Emma Chalmers, Lee Hunsacker, Cuffy Meigs, Claude Slagenhop... |
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Post by matisse on Apr 1, 2010 17:40:15 GMT -5
...but she was just so naive in some ways. it's like she believed that these Doers, these 'industrialists' were constitutionally incapable of venality or dishonesty-that if we just let them do as they pleased, the Best Possible World would follow automatically. It's hard to believe someone so smart could be so naive and get it so wrong. Sheesh, just look at our economy and what happens, seemingly inevitably, when you have deregulation. Enron, the whole financial crisis we're in, etc. There were even reports of real estate agents doing sexual favors to get higher on the lender's preferred lists. |
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Phil
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Phil on Apr 1, 2010 17:56:36 GMT -5
I'm having my hip surgery on Monday. I paid today. My out of pocket costs, my 20%, for the procedure were $824. This, of course, doesn't include all the appointments, tests, etc. I went through leading up to today. I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't have an extra $824, especially after being laid up/distracted/out of work due to the ailment they're paying to fix. I really wonder what those people do. If I didn't have the money today, would my surgery be canceled? Best of luck on Monday, E.  |
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Post by Ray T on Apr 1, 2010 20:05:23 GMT -5
Yea good Luck E with the operation Hope all goes well. I have always said "Money can't buy you love, but it can rent it." |
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Post by BA on Apr 1, 2010 20:21:41 GMT -5
E - sending prayers, good karma and various other good juju of the cosmos your way.
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Post by E on Apr 1, 2010 20:23:41 GMT -5
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Post by BA on Apr 1, 2010 20:26:37 GMT -5
LMFAO! War tweet!
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Post by Ouch on Apr 2, 2010 17:20:04 GMT -5
I'm having my hip surgery on Monday. I paid today. My out of pocket costs, my 20%, for the procedure were $824. This, of course, doesn't include all the appointments, tests, etc. I went through leading up to today. I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't have an extra $824, especially after being laid up/distracted/out of work due to the ailment they're paying to fix. I really wonder what those people do. If I didn't have the money today, would my surgery be canceled? Exactly - the whole 'if you work for it, you can pay for it' mentality doesn't quite work in this regard when you have to pay to fix something that puts you out of work and when something is usually that severe, then it's only going to be more pricier than the 'stubbed toe' sort of thing. ...plus, like E mentions - sure if you have a decent, or in E's case (from what I presume from deduction) good job, then maybe you can put out some of the cash needed to get it done, all of it even, maybe...but for the person who has a lesser job, which may carry lesser or no insurance, what then? Same problem, but less ability to pay, and the insurance companies aren't getting any more charitable last I checked, if you're covered at all = screwed. Not having anything done means the problem becomes stagnant or worse, thus keeping you either out of work for an extended period of time, reducing your ability to work, or taking you out and not particularly able to work again. Long term PT maybe to 'hold position', will end up costing more over an extended period of time, and eventually/potentially being put into a medical care facility just makes it worse cost, and living-wise; then again, none of that might be approved, and you might just have to 'live with it'...or not... No, we definitely don't have a free-market, by far, but even with a free market, phil brings up the point of how we can still be screwed. Particularly when it comes down to specialised equipment. Small number of supply means that supply is going to be more expensive, small number of consumers means, expensive. Little wiggle room because there isn't much elasticity. Pay out with everything you got, or go without...sure you could say without regulation, then you could produce a less expensive product (a less expensive 'expensive' product that is) by allowing suppliers to cut some corners - exactly, so the folks phil talks about do that (and that's supposed to be the 'quality' work), you end up with a shoddy product, and that's not even the worse that could happen, as there is at least some modicum of regulation, de-regulate it, and you'll have Chitty Chitty Bang Bangs with issues that would make Toyota \'s problems pale in comparison. Want to see what hyper-lax regulations look like in the face of hyper-capitalism? Look at China; that tainted baby formula and toothpaste, mmm, good stuff. How about those toys with the chemicals in them that could be harmful to young children? Sounds like great playtime fun. We're not losing jobs to China because the Chinese are inherently better at manufacturing than us, they're better at not playing by the rules than us. Right now, perhaps people are right, by enacting some policies, the government may take control of things, blah, blah, blah. Those Communist Nazis are going to take away our Tea! AHH! So, there's government control, or corporate control, choose your overlords wisely. In a corporation, the Board of Directors decides when to boot out the CEO and who shall replace said person. That's a specific few set of people; if that isn't virtually a de-facto dictatorship, I don't know what is. For the government, the Board of Directors is composed of the voting populace, and despite some kinks that need to be worked out in this thing we're calling Democracy, you get a vote no matter the size of your wallet; corporations only take suggestions by those who buy, and buy a lot... |
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Post by Ciao Bella on Apr 2, 2010 17:48:35 GMT -5
All the best for your surgery E! make sure you come out of it with flying colors ok? ... and will send you virtual tapas to kickstart your recuperation |
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