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Post by Sean on Nov 16, 2005 15:55:26 GMT -5
I wasn't standing on a goddamn soapbox, it was a genuine question to the disabled community, some freaked out bitches just got in the way. So if I was 'standing on a soapbox', what do you call parading around in paradevo shirts, thongs, etc? The thing is, she wasn't *that* freaked out. Your question was genuine, and you'll notice I did not criticise you for it. In fact, I even pointed out that once in a while I try it myself! Perhaps sometimes it's not so much *what* you say as *how* you say it. You were clearly irritated, and that "tone" tends to inflame issues more than anything. And JESUS CHRIST YES, Wylz. Earl knows that I use his pic. <snip>Just because you go off on some big tangent on your website about how posting pictures of disabled people is a heinous act and immoral, don't think that everybody else feels the same way. If he knows, cool. I think you ought to read my statement about photos a little more carefully. Obviously I'm in the minority here, fair enough. FWIW, I'm not saying that posting pictures of people with disabilities is heinous and immoral. I'm saying that posting photos of people WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT is wrong. The fact that this practice seems to happen a heck of a lot more in the devotee community is just incidental (though I suspect it happens a lot for fans of celebrities as well, and I think it's not much better...) And there is no need to both swear and yell at me. I sure this is not a new point of view, but I say go for it. Stop F*ckin around and do it. It's easy. Get drunk and dive in shallow water, or cut off a limb. I don't understand why you haven't done it already. Scared? well thats part of being disabled. Not knowing if you'll survive the accident or what your life will be like if you do. Don't cheat yourself out of the whole experience. Well I'm sure I said something wrong here, but feel free to try and change my point of view. Rollnthundr, can't see why you think you said something wrong. Your point certainly has merit Alas, I'll be the first to admit that I have a certain level of... I don't know... maybe arrogance? In that I'm not particularly interested in anything else than what I "want" (want in quotes because the concept that word doesn't represent the feeling). That said, obviously I'd be having to live with an "unwanted" disability if I ended up a high quad instead of a low para. <shrug> Ten years ago a para pointed out to me that in a way, we were in a very similar situation. She wanted to be able to walk, but couldn't, and I wanted to be paralysed, but couldn't. The anguish and frustration of one was very similar to that of the other. Thank you for presenting your opinion. It's refreshing to be able to exchange without fight. wylz, it does require some effort on my part to type and so for the present time, i'll pass on your invitation to polemize about the pretender/wannabe topic Fair enough. However, you both say you won't engage in a debate and then make several statements on the topic... And so without expecting responses from you again, I must respond to some of what you say such feelings as you are unhealthy for a clearly thinking reasonable person I doubt anything you could say on that topic would be new to me. It *is* unhealthy, I'll gladly agree with you. As I said, I have no issue whatseoever taking on the label of having a mental illness. BTW, and as an aside, why is it that having a mental illness is still perceived so negatively in our society? Why is it that even within the disability community at large, who is asking for society to be more accepting of them as people with disabilities, yes, why is it that people with physical/sensory disabilities are still buying in to the perception a mental illness is something negative? But I digress, back to my point. Yes, I may have a mental illness. And yes I may need treatment. I draw several parallels with transexuals (who are still perceived by many as being mentally ill). There are many courses of treatment for transexuals. One of them involves surgery. I *wish* the mental health professionals were able to a) Properly identify someone who has the type of dysphoria I have, but they don't. They are mostly ignorant, and as such, liable to do more damage than help. b) Offer courses of treatment that were effective and efficient, from straight counselling, to medication, and up to and including surgery when appropriate. Not all transexuals should have the surgery, and by the same token, not all wannabes should go through surgery. just please believe me when i say that whatever your perception might currently be about being disabled it doesn't begin to include the reality that people like us have to deal with for the rest of our lives I wish wannabes were given a bit more benefit of the doubt. While many of us are clueless and have a glamourised perception of what it's like to have a disability, I assure you that many of us have a very clear understanding of what it might involve. I can elaborate for you on how I came to this understanding if you want, but please for now, accept that I know the implications, as much as it is possible to know them without being actually paralysed. please at least restrict your feelings to fantasies if nothing else as you're eventually are certainly going to regret any active and 'successful' pursuit to become a crip Reasonable request, and I thank you for it. There are many reasons why I haven't attempted self-injury to date (after living 30+ years with this "condition"), and one of them is that part of me agrees with you. and i'm restraining myself here not to simply go off on ya for feeling/thinking what you are, lest you feel alienated from everyone..especially since you're obviously struggling with, and suffering from these thoughts/feelings.. Thank you for your restraint A calm and collected dialogue *is* so much better than a slanging match And yes, I struggle/suffer with these feelings. In fact, over the last year, I've been thinking I'd better be dead than alive with these feelings (ironically, how many in our society say "better dead than disabled"?). As for feeling alienated from everyone, it wouldn't be the first, nor the last time do not do this because you're sooner or later going to end up really depressed about such a decision and 'life' you'll have.. Considering that aside from my transabled feelings, I've been dealing with severe chronic depression since my teens, this wouldn't be a huge change... As a good friend put it: "I suspect you are right about most ... being a depressed para vs a depressed AB would probably indeed be better, shame nobody else seems to understand it" never considered that death is not always the ultimate result Which brings us back to Rollnthundr's point
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Post by sitski on Nov 16, 2005 16:01:25 GMT -5
Hi - came here from the apparelyzed forum - I'm a pretty regular T2 para - injured a couple of years ago. Wife pretty much turned off completely by the disability thing.
I've posted a reply on there - just so there's at least one from an actual disabled guy :-)
It's a difficult area and the tag 'devotee' isn't one that many people would happily accept even if they did fall into the category, it's just a bit to fetishistic.
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Post by BA on Nov 16, 2005 16:32:25 GMT -5
Well, welcome aboard sitski. What a great thread we have got going here. Intelligent debate, no mud slinging (btw Chan, I mean no offense in my post, I just happened to feel that your tone was a bit defensive on that other board). We have some extraordinarily bright people here and I think it's incredible that we can openly discourse on some formerly 'taboo' topics with a level of compassion and understanding for one another. At minimum, there is respect for a difference of opinion. This is the way a site like ours should be.
Thanks RollingT and Stude for your insightful remarks and thanks also Wylz for really getting to the heart of the matter re: your feelings.
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Post by rollnthundr on Nov 16, 2005 17:57:27 GMT -5
**Ten years ago a para pointed out to me that in a way, we were in a very similar situation. She wanted to be able to walk, but couldn't, and I wanted to be paralysed, but couldn't.
I don't see the logic of this.. even with my limited hand use, I can come to your house and within a few minutes use a scalpel and make you a para. If you tell me what level i can even cut your cord at the right spot. You however can do nothing to make me walk again..
**I wish wannabes were given a bit more benefit of the doubt. While many of us are clueless and have a glamourised perception of what it's like to have a disability, I assure you that many of us have a very clear understanding of what it might involve.
I see this in the same light as a white person saying they know exactly what it's like to be black.. Unless you have been permanatly disabled there is no possability you know anything about what it's like. The actual physical limitaions are the least of my problems.
**As a good friend put it: "I suspect you are right about most ... being a depressed para vs a depressed AB would probably indeed be better, **mental illness is still perceived so negatively in our society? Why is it that even within the disability community at large, who is asking for society to be more accepting of them as people with disabilities, yes, why is it that people with physical/sensory disabilities are still buying in to the perception a mental illness is something negative?
Maybe this is where you need to look for answers. It's not better being a depressed para, it's just more acceptable by society.
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Post by rollnthundr on Nov 16, 2005 18:00:34 GMT -5
Sorry, didn't know how to make the box around your words so I just cut and pasted it. Yes, I'm a computer idiot... not on this thing much.
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Post by Sean on Nov 16, 2005 18:34:41 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with not being familliar with computers and how the various board work FWIW, you would use the "quote" button at the top right of each post. Or wrap the text you want to quote between the quote tag. Feel free to ask if you want more details on this. I don't see the logic of this.. The logic being, we each have similar frustrations. I see this in the same light as a white person saying they know exactly what it's like to be black.. Please don't misread me. I said that I knew as much as anyone *could* know without being actually paralysed. I do not say I know exactly what it is like. But, I would like people not to disregard the possibility that I might have a better understanding than they think. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm not ignorant, head-in-the-air, thinking it's all glamour, etc. I *do* know better. Unless you have been permanatly disabled there is no possability you know anything about what it's like. I disagree with that. You are of course correct that I can't know the pain involved, or that I can't know "in my guts" what it is like. But there are many aspects that one can understand without having a disability. I don't think here is the place to have this debate, and I'm unsure I could convince you anyway. I'm willing to have the debate, if you want, if you're open to listen to my points. The actual physical limitaions are the least of my problems. Agreed. But perhaps you'll say "who the hell is he to agree"? Maybe this is where you need to look for answers. It's not better being a depressed para, it's just more acceptable by society. Is it? Really? Somehow, I doubt that. But what do I know? <shrug>
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Post by devogirl on Nov 16, 2005 18:55:44 GMT -5
This thread has strayed a bit from the original point, but I still have comments....Chan, I applaud you for wanting to talk to disabled guys about being a devo, but I'm not sure that board is the place to do it. I admittedly only looked around breifly, but from what I could see on the "relationships" section, it's full of AB wives, and it's better to just stay away from them. I know, it's devastating for them when their husbands are injured, but some of them seem to want a fucking medal for staying with the guy. Please, if you're not attracted to him and you're only taking care of him out of pity, I think it's better for both partners if he moves on to someone who can accept and appreciate the way his body is now. I saw one post by a woman complaining about how she never has sex with her c5 quad husband, and it just pissed me off. I've had some of the best sex of my life with a c5 quad. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it does no good to go tell those women that, they just have to figure it out for themselves. Anyway, I'm all for changing minds, but there will always be some prejudiced people. And kudos to the one guy who came over here from apparalyzed to check us out for himself. Why not become a member and find out more about us? ;D
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Post by E on Nov 16, 2005 19:45:33 GMT -5
Anyway, I'm all for changing minds, but there will always be some prejudiced people. This is true, but so strange. I was born disabled, so it's deeply trenched in my identity, so my outlook may be a bit different. But I don't see how a disabled male can't be pleased with the idea of devoteeism. The entire concept thrills me. By most women, I'm not seen as a viable mate due to my body, but to a select few, my qualities are LUSTED after. As those Heineken guys say, "Brilliant!" It's the ultimate win-win.
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Post by rollnthundr on Nov 16, 2005 19:54:45 GMT -5
hey, don't knock the wife only sticking with the guy to take care of him, you know how much it costs to get a good attendant? lmao
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Post by captozone on Nov 16, 2005 21:11:04 GMT -5
I went ahead and added my two cents worth on that thread for what it's worth. I just thought I'd let ya know. Peace Faron
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Post by BA on Nov 17, 2005 6:08:41 GMT -5
We've gone around the bend trying to figure out and alternate to Devo. For some it sounds just so tacky and for others, just reminds them of a band they don't like. I, for one, don't care what name you put to it. You can just call me "one of THOSE girls".
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Post by Triassic on Nov 17, 2005 8:18:13 GMT -5
"I see you/And I know what you do/Because I do it too." -Devo (the band)
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Post by hillary on Nov 17, 2005 9:45:50 GMT -5
Hi! This is "that Hillary woman" from the apparelyzed board. I want to clear a few things up. 1. I am not with my husband just because I feel he need me and I do not wish to be given an award. 2. I never said anything bad about devos..I simply asked some questions and the conversation quickly turned defensive. 3. I have a right to get on a board and ask questions about how to better take care of my husband. I understand how and why you are attracted to people in wheelchairs. Most are hot. What I would like to say is that it doesn't seem that great when you actually have to go through the whole injury, rehabilitation, etc. with someone that you love. I offered my opinioin on some of the pics on here...not to try to upset anyone. I simply said that if you wish to get away from being seen as a fetish community then I wouldn't have bondage pics up on your page. I never said anything was wrong with bondage and I never said that the man in the pics wasn't willing and loving it. I've been trying to understand and it seems I just get attacked for asking questions and saying how I feel. If you really want someone to see your side of the coin, that is not the way to do it. I'm done, I wanted to let everyone know that I'm not a horrible bitch.....and I don't deserved to be berated because I am married to a paraplegic and I have questions. Have a great day everybody!
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Post by Joisliniad on Nov 17, 2005 10:15:33 GMT -5
I don't understand Fatty why you couldn't post your comments under your own name. I still keep thinking it is morbid, and your behavior about the way you started the whole thread make it more morbid. Those wife and any disabled person went through a lot when their suffered the accident that caused their disability. Now they can have fun and go on with their life, some want a real family, some want just to have fun. It seem to me you are looking just to have fun, and that is o.k, but don't go to other boards adn be rude to them just because we don't think about your preferences as you think, or just don't come back to your board and made fun of us for having a different way of thinking.
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Post by rollnthundr on Nov 17, 2005 12:48:57 GMT -5
MEOW.. boy the claw come out. you condemn those who are defensive and in the same post come out with some serious attitude. Chan, like I said, The only opinion that should matter is that of the guys you date. I for one am wishing to be one...lol your a hotty.....
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