Pij02
Full Member
Posts: 130
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by Pij02 on Dec 2, 2010 19:56:40 GMT -5
Emma,
I don't know a lot, but I would like to think I know a touch more than the average person about genetics and inheritance. It is something I have a strong interest in. Also, being a devotee, I am very interested in the genetics of devoteeism as well. It is something I love to speculate on, at length. However, I know this kind of discussion is not most peoples cup of tea, so I try to condense...
I would like to add that I think my own devoteeism is a by-product of my childhood self esteem issues. When I was young, between the ages of 5-13, I had very low self esteem, was painfully shy, and had no social skills. However, I was also, inside, a dominant and aggressive person. So, because of the, incorrect, perception that disabled men were safe and non threatening (catering to my low self esteem) and weaker (catering to my dominant tendencies), I sexualized disability. The preference for paraplegics, as opposed to quads, amps, or etc., is probably just a product of circumstance. An historical accident that could have went a number of ways.
As I matured (and conquered my self esteem issues) my conceptions of disability, as making someone weak or safe, evaporated. However, the sexualization, now ingrained into my psyche, remained. Like any sexual behavior it can separate from its source rational. It was like a psychology experiment with Pavlov's dogs. I would become aroused at the sight of a disabled man, and the more times I conditioned myself that disability was sexy (by fantasizing/masturbating, looking at images, reading fiction/watching movies) the stronger the paraphilia became. Fast forward 15 years and the paraphilia has been permanently and inexorably ingrained into me, while the original rational/cause has been completely eradicated.
After MUCH thought and introspection, that is my personal explanation for my own personal devoteeism. (I am sure many will disagree.)
[shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300]~Paige[/glow][/shadow]
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Post by Cake on Dec 2, 2010 20:19:28 GMT -5
I would like to add that I think my own devoteeism is a by-product of my childhood self esteem issues. When I was young, between the ages of 5-13, I had very low self esteem, was painfully shy, and had no social skills. However, I was also, inside, a dominant and aggressive person. So, because of the, incorrect, perception that disabled men were safe and non threatening (catering to my low self esteem) and weaker (catering to my dominant tendencies), I sexualized disability. The preference for paraplegics, as opposed to quads, amps, or etc., is probably just a product of circumstance. An historical accident that could have went a number of ways. As I matured (and conquered my self esteem issues) my conceptions of disability, as making someone weak or safe, evaporated. However, the sexualization, now ingrained into my psyche, remained. Like any sexual behavior it can separate from its source rational. It was like a psychology experiment with Pavlov's dogs. I would become aroused at the sight of a disabled man, and the more times I conditioned myself that disability was sexy (by fantasizing/masturbating, looking at images, reading fiction/watching movies) the stronger the paraphilia became. Fast forward 15 years and the paraphilia has been permanently and inexorably ingrained into me, while the original rational/cause has been completely eradicated. After MUCH thought and introspection, that is my personal explanation for my own personal devoteeism. (I am sure many will disagree.) [shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300] ~Paige[/glow][/shadow] Paige, that's a very intelligent theory. It makes complete sense to me and I think you actually hit the nail on the head here. What you wrote is pretty much what I think about my devoteeism, and it's also very similar to what a very good sexuality expert once told me. Like you, I was an extremely shy (only) child, constantly harassed by other kids. Additionally, I had a very dominant and often intimidating father. But my inner personality has always been, like you said, aggressive and rather dominant and passionate, which I however learned to repress early on. That our sexuality would develop the way it did makes so much sense! And I think you're right on about the ingraining and the circumstantial development of a preference (for instance, I know exactly at which point it became paras for me, while before it hat been all kinds of disabilities). Thanks for putting into words what I've been trying to grasp.  |
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Pij02
Full Member
Posts: 130
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by Pij02 on Dec 3, 2010 3:11:21 GMT -5
I must admit that I am a bit thunderstruck that I hit any nail, other than my own, on the head! I don't know why, but I always assumed the factors that made me a dev were unique to me. This makes me wonder if their is a finite set of personality traits/environmental triggers that make devs. A master code, if you will, of a few genetic predisposition that mate with a few triggers (in various combinations) that are uniform across the devotee spectrum. Probably not, but an interesting idea none the less.
[shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300]~Paige[/glow][/shadow]
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Post by Emma on Dec 3, 2010 15:14:54 GMT -5
I think you are defiantly on the right track Paige, the most right track I have ever heard in all my years of being a dev. I think you right or its just something we are born with. I too appreciate you sharing your theory with us. I think for me its a little different since I wasn't really shy as a kid (I was a bit shy when I was maybe age 3-10) but certainly similar.
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:11:44 GMT -5
Hi, everyone! My name is Ruth Madison and I'm the author of (W)hole. I had no idea there was a discussion going on, a friend of mine just told me about it. I would be delighted to answer any questions you have about it. For those who haven't read it yet, I promise it turns out affirming in the end. I'm actually working on a sequel now because I think there were some ambiguous moments at the end and there is more of the story to tell once Elizabeth learns to be comfortable and content with herself as a devotee. It's amazing to see this forum. Back ten years ago when I first started looking for information and resources, there was nothing. All that could be found was incredibly negative. I will tell you the truth, I am a devotee. I wrote this story right from my heart and it took me ten years to finish it. My family insisted on the disclaimers and they are not comfortable with me publicly discussing my sexuality. But I am an open book, with no ability to keep secrets, so please ask me anything! It's great to meet you all. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:16:55 GMT -5
Emma, I don't know a lot, but I would like to think I know a touch more than the average person about genetics and inheritance. It is something I have a strong interest in. Also, being a devotee, I am very interested in the genetics of devoteeism as well. It is something I love to speculate on, at length. However, I know this kind of discussion is not most peoples cup of tea, so I try to condense... I would like to add that I think my own devoteeism is a by-product of my childhood self esteem issues. When I was young, between the ages of 5-13, I had very low self esteem, was painfully shy, and had no social skills. However, I was also, inside, a dominant and aggressive person. So, because of the, incorrect, perception that disabled men were safe and non threatening (catering to my low self esteem) and weaker (catering to my dominant tendencies), I sexualized disability. The preference for paraplegics, as opposed to quads, amps, or etc., is probably just a product of circumstance. An historical accident that could have went a number of ways. As I matured (and conquered my self esteem issues) my conceptions of disability, as making someone weak or safe, evaporated. However, the sexualization, now ingrained into my psyche, remained. Like any sexual behavior it can separate from its source rational. It was like a psychology experiment with Pavlov's dogs. I would become aroused at the sight of a disabled man, and the more times I conditioned myself that disability was sexy (by fantasizing/masturbating, looking at images, reading fiction/watching movies) the stronger the paraphilia became. Fast forward 15 years and the paraphilia has been permanently and inexorably ingrained into me, while the original rational/cause has been completely eradicated. After MUCH thought and introspection, that is my personal explanation for my own personal devoteeism. (I am sure many will disagree.) [shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300] ~Paige[/glow][/shadow] Interesting. I also had massive self-esteem issues as a child and that may have contributed to the sexualization of disability, but it has taken on a life of its own and become much more about strong, tough, capable disabled men. I am at this point in my life very confident, well-adjusted, good self-esteem, but the devoteeism remains. I have had some very satisfying relationships with disabled men and I have never wanted to caretake to them or seen them as weaker. Safer, though, it may have started with safer. From what I've read it seems that the preference for paraplegia is extremely common. It's strange, but it seems that the vast majority of male devotees prefer amputation and the vast majority of female devotees prefer paraplegia. Don't know what causes that. |
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Jan 5, 2011 16:16:59 GMT -5
Welcome, Ruth, it's very good to have you here. Reading your book was a very emotional experience for me and I'm so glad you've joined us. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:22:36 GMT -5
ya, we've talked about this book before and yet i still haven't gotten around to getting a copy! good to hear some of the reviews coming in. it's amazing that a book has finally been published dealing with this subject. disappointed to hear that it sounds like even in this fictional telling of a dev story the dev scares off the wheeler by being open about her devness.  was hoping the book might have been more affirming. and maybe it is, later on? i'm going to order it this week and find out for myself. I actually had to self-publish the book. I contacted 200 agents and publishers and was rejected by all of them based only on the subject matter! But I knew there had to be people out there who wanted this story. The break up in the story is temporary, the guy needs time to adjust to the idea himself! I would be totally delighted if people would post reviews on Amazon. Of course I would like positive reviews, but the most important thing is to be honest so that other people will know what to expect when they order it! |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:23:31 GMT -5
Welcome, Ruth, it's very good to have you here. Reading your book was a very emotional experience for me and I'm so glad you've joined us. Thanks. I can't explain what an incredibly emotional experience it is to see that people are reading my book. It brings tears to my eyes. I'm going back through and reading the whole thread, but it's going to take me a while! |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:28:32 GMT -5
My copy is arrived right now, I’m going to read. The book in the left hand, the dictionary in the right one. From the back cover: “ A young man wanting to be whole; a young woman certain she can never be”. Sad approach, SIG! That quote on the back is not my view, but when I tried to get advance reviews, that's what the person wrote! But at least they both discover within the story that they are and can be whole. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:31:51 GMT -5
Oh my word! I dont know how the kind of Dev portrayed in this book could function. I have not seen this level of guilt and self-flagellation outside a Catholic church! I still plan on reading the book, because I will obviously empathize somewhat with the main character and have an affinity for the subject matter. However, I will likely be exasperated through much of it! I must be the ONLY Dev in history who has never agonized, and tormented myself, over my devness. I must admit this notion that it is something dark and terrible, that has to be forcibly extracted from my person, is an extremely strange concept for me. I have always been a Dev and I have always accepted that I was a Dev. It has never occurred to me that I would like to remove that portion of myself, or that I should obsessively agonize over it. If a magical Jeanie popped up right now and said that he would blink my devness out of existence I would tell him where he could shove his offer! I realize that I am in the minority here. (I have read a lot of the old threads). However, I am still a little disappointed by this book (and I haven't even read it yet) because I would have (selfishly) liked the story to be told more from my perspective. Maybe the drama could have been the heroin railing against others misconceptions and misunderstandings of her. Maybe the drama could have been the disapproval of her love interest. There are a lot of ways the story could have went, in my opinion, other than making the lead a repressed and obsessively self-hating downer! However, I will still read it, because how many dev-themed books are there to choose from? Maybe those quotes from the book were cherry-picked and I will be pleasantly suprised... [shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300] ~Paige[/glow][/shadow] Good for you! I have arrived at a place of being comfortable with being as I am, but when I was Elizabeth's age, it was that bad. It really was. I'm excited to write a sequel because Elizabeth's own perspective will have changed so much. I'm now ten years from discovering that there was a word for it, that anyone else felt what I felt. A lot can change in ten years. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:34:49 GMT -5
Me neither I LOVE being a dev and no genie could take it away nor would I ever choose to go see a therapist who could "cure" me. Being a dev defines me in so many ways. Can't wait to get the book. And yes I agree maybe (hopefully) she is here. Hi Ruth I told my parents about being a dev and they suggested therapy. I was horrified that they wanted to "fix" me. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:36:41 GMT -5
but the next time i went to see him he had done resurch and was like "ummm the net say that your a dev cos you are scared of a real relasionship. you just have to work on what your scared of and the other stuff will go" so then we never talked about it again really cos i had to work on why i was scared ( im still lost about that ... i still dont think im scared). OMG what a crap counselor! Seriously, he thought it was no problem when he talked to you directly, then he looked at the INTERNET and decided you had a problem? You could get that kind of BS from random strangers on the street for free. I don't know you at all, but I really doubt you are a dev because you are scared of a real relationship. That's a dumbed-down version of Freud 101, that a fetish develops because you are avoiding "real" sex/relationship. But it's clearly so much more complicated than that. Your dev feelings will never go away ever, but it doesn't mean you're scared or that there's something wrong with you. Either tell him he's dead wrong, or if you do need to talk about your dev feelings, find a better therapist who knows more about non-standard sexuality. I agree, I've had real sex and real relationships with disabled men for years! |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:39:37 GMT -5
lavly, it sounds like your therapist was very embarassed by your thing, or by his lack of knowledge on the issue. In fact, I am still amazed, that the devotee subject doesn't have any decent research. Actually, not even undecent. Personally, I don't think devoteeism has anything to do with fear. On this I agree with devogirl. But I do believe it has some psychological basis, which is probably different in most of us. And I am curious about it's origins, whatever they might be. Also, I don't think, as R. Madison does, that it is "programmed" or "wired" in us from birth. It must have some environmental basis, even though we might not remember it. It is not a trait of charachter, can not be, evolutionally it doesn't make any sense. We wouldn't survive, if we carried this trait genetically. For obvious reasons of natural selection Genetically speaking, being a dev is as promissing, as having lungs, while living in the ocean. So there must be a "nurture" factor. We just sometimes are not aware of it. I'm still unsure about whether it is something that we can be born with or not. I still have yet to find any reason for it in my past, but then again I believe in reincarnation, so I think it could be leftover from something in a previous life. Now I'm going to sound even stranger! But genetically speaking, there are variations we are born with that don't help our evolution, they just tend to die out. We'll see if I manage to have children  There may very well be an environmental cause that I just have not yet found in my own environment. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jan 5, 2011 16:44:43 GMT -5
I read the book in 24 hours (on and off, obviously) and completely loved it. I'm so sad it isn't longer. Just like the rest of you I identified with her and loved seeing a true, real, mostly normal dev put on paper and published. I loved the parts where she struggled with what to tell her friends and how different she felt than them in relation to guys. I loved how she talked about seeing his disabled body as beautiful. I loved how she recognized her opportunity when she met him and took advantage of it. I love how normal and confident she came off to him yet in her head was thinking something different. I really hope to find the author online and thank her for her wonderful book. Any similar book suggestions? Yay! Now that I've found my audience, I am going to keep on writing in this theme. I hope that my writing improves and my style will get better and better. I know the writing in this book isn't stellar, but I think I will keep learning and growing and getting better. I started writing this when I was 18 years old! |
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was hoping the book might have been more affirming. and maybe it is, later on?
