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Post by Triassic on Apr 7, 2008 10:16:39 GMT -5
well problemlover, don't generalize TOO much from this. as devogirl sometimes points out, these little surveys and discussions aren't remotely 'scientific' or definitive....
but there's a 'meta-issue' here, perhaps. i get the impression that AB has a pretty solid idea of what a Relationship should be like. and she wants that-only with a gimp, not the usual able bodied guy. everything pretty much the same; same activity level, same time horizons, same way of life, same interests, etc, etc...only with a physically disabled man.
and that sort of thing is certainly possible. but it depends on the man and on his degree and type of disability. a youngish, fit para could do that.
but it's questionable that you could shoehorn a high quad into that sort of 'normal', ideal lifestylye. you all have read on this board of men who've been sidelined for months because of a little pressure sore. or thy get UTI's etc...my point is someone in that position IS INDEED 'self-absorbed'. he's got to be alert all the time or the train goes off the rails. even a low para has got potentially serious threats looming all the time. people with CP or neuro problems have lots of serious things going on that EVEN DEVS may not be able to really understand.
so all i'm saying is it might be profitable for all concerned to expand their notions of Commitment and Relationships, and not get too stuck on conventions, you know? maybe a quad can't be The One for you...but he could still be a big part of your life.
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Post by cunning69guy on Apr 7, 2008 11:45:14 GMT -5
YVW Charlene. But remember, I said that those were my fears and opinions. Obviously, as I have stated, I have a friend who after years of marriage and no luck with natural conception did IVF. That resulted in twins. They are happily married, she's a full-time PT, he's on a disability pension, they own their home and I have no idea how they dealt with the babies as newborns and infants, nor how they deal with them as toddlers. But it apparently works, so don't necessarily base your fears on mine. Whatever happens in your life, good luck, because there's no guaranteeing an AB husband would be any more supportive or helpful than a wheeler.
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Post by problemlover on Apr 7, 2008 12:59:11 GMT -5
Ok then... Quick poll for you more knowledgeable dis. The guy I was seeing is a 27 y/o T4 inc but has nasty HO on his hips. Still lives with his mother and doesn't work. Has no forseeable plans for the future and says he doesn't believe in commitment for two reasons. 1 He had a bad previous relationship and 2 He doesn't have the means to support anyone. But that's my whole point.Wouldn't all that change if you met the 'right' person? Or a totally different scenario...Let the husband take care of the bills. I know I must not make sense sometimes I'm just confused and I can only vent here.Sorry ppl just trying to make sense of the weirdest part of my life.
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Post by Sova on Apr 7, 2008 16:22:23 GMT -5
Ok then... Quick poll for you more knowledgeable dis. The guy I was seeing is a 27 y/o T4 inc but has nasty HO on his hips. Still lives with his mother and doesn't work. Has no forseeable plans for the future and says he doesn't believe in commitment for two reasons. 1 He had a bad previous relationship and 2 He doesn't have the means to support anyone. But that's my whole point.Wouldn't all that change if you met the 'right' person? Or a totally different scenario...Let the husband take care of the bills. I know I must not make sense sometimes I'm just confused and I can only vent here.Sorry ppl just trying to make sense of the weirdest part of my life. Lives with his mom, has no foreseeable plans for the future, bad previous relationship, and doesn't have the means to support anyone... ...that sounds like it could be ANY guy not just a disabled one lol.
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Post by Sova on Apr 7, 2008 16:33:49 GMT -5
So Sova... you're saying you do avoid commitment? You know I never thought so many ppl would rather not commit. In all honesty I would've thought you'd want to commit. But hey...looks like I have wheelers figured out TOTALLY wrong. AB...I wish we could talk this big mess in my head over a few drinks . You seem to know exactly how I feel. Guess you have to live and learn. It's not that I DON'T want to commit in general, just not right now. I've had serious girlfriends before so I'm no stranger to longterm relationships. But I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that I'm a wheeler. It's like asking an AB male if they avoid commitment. If they said yes they do, would you automatically assume that all AB men feel the same way? I think this question is more of a guy thing than a disabled guy thing
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Post by Pony on Apr 7, 2008 17:13:46 GMT -5
lol...I'm somewhat 'confused', too!! It's impossible to generalize here - every mindset and disability is soooo different!! I've known more physically independent chairdudes who had a LOT more physical AND emotional problems with disability. As for 'self-absorbed', I think I know what AB means. I have been around other chairdudes that the World revolved around their schedule. A long time ago I decided to make myself the lowest maintainance c5c6 I could be, focusing my sights on working, music, hangin with friends, or the girl I was seeing. Of course being quad gets in the way at times, but it's an attitude to not let the chair stuff become the focus. Having said that, my chair is not clean, my cushion sucks, my van lift is old and I neglect disability related SHT a lot, but my mind is on more important stuff.
I want a committed relationship, just not with the wrong chick, or a girl I'm not attracted to. Having a kid is not a problem to me, if the kid doesn't act like a wild animal, but there's soooo many other pieces of the puzzle that I need to fit. Wish I was a 'simpler' person, but can't change who I am.
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Post by BA on Apr 7, 2008 17:36:26 GMT -5
You have all brought so much to this discussion. I am glad you are open enough to bring it to the table, but I feel that I should clarify my feelings as I've been asked to do by Creative-E.
Cunning, your post (quite a few posts ago) was beautiful and really intelligent. I wish you'd change your name to reflect how bright and sensitive you really are!
What I am talking about regarding this whole issue has NOTHING to do with PHYSICAL ABILITY. As a Dev, I accept and even embrace that I might be with someone who could not possibly do laundry, cooking, cleaning, garbage duty or holding a sqirming child. I would not even consider entering into a relationship if I couldn't accept that a man with a disability might have limitations on some of the physical aspects of life. In fact, why bother even being a Dev, if you can't handle the physical limitations??? These are part of the territory!!! There are many ways to compromise in these areas, as long as you have two loving, adults who are willing to work to mutual solutions.
The issue I am trying to discuss is what I perceive as EMOTIONAL self-absorbtion. That is a totally different thing, which is certainly not limited to the disabled population or to men. Unfortunately, it has been a big part of my personal experience with disabled guys. Again, only MY experience.
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Post by Triassic on Apr 7, 2008 17:40:46 GMT -5
what's a nasty HO? eh...never mind but what's wrong w/the guy living at home, not working, no plans, etc? SO? that's his business. as long as he's not sponging off you, it isn't your concern. if you don't dig it, move on. but if you can accept him for what he is, AS he is(and he should grant you the same respect)it could be nice...
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Post by mrjefffurz on Apr 7, 2008 18:21:53 GMT -5
my kid was born when i was 27,,,,7 months post-injury,,,,im T-5 complete...somebody had to make a living & my ex had skills she could use to get a job,,,,my skills required being a very fit AB....so @ 3 months old nikki was in my care...i could do handle all of her needs,,,if she lay on the floor on her tummy i could grasp the back of her sleeper and life her into my lap until she could take my hand & pull herself up and sprawl on my arm,,,then she learned she could get into places where i couldnt reach her,,,and she would go there and laugh @ me the little brat!!!!...
the chairdudes @ this site do not reflect the dis community imho...the dudes here are into living,,,grasping life by the throat...
that grrl that i was so gaga over a few months ago has a 5 yr old son....the thing that frightened me most about that was that i knew i could eventually get over losing her (someday)...but i KNOW myself,,,i could never have gotten over the loss of the child if i had become close to him..
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Post by natasha on Apr 7, 2008 20:09:31 GMT -5
Like Sova just said, its a guy thing in general..doesnt matter if they're wheelers, midgets, albinos, etc... in essence they're all the same self centered creatures ....
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Post by devogirl on Apr 7, 2008 20:51:29 GMT -5
Still lives with his mother and doesn't work. Has no forseeable plans for the future and says he doesn't believe in commitment This guy sounds like a loser. Disabled or not, if he doesn't have any ambitions at all, he's not relationship material. He's told you he doesn't want a relationship. His reasons are in the end immaterial. The disability has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of slacker guys just like this who are not disabled, and there are disabled guys with a lot less function, more health problems, who still have plans for the future and life goals. Not every wheeler guy you meet will be like him. In the words of Dan Savage, it's time to DTMFA.
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Post by Triassic on Apr 8, 2008 4:23:32 GMT -5
whoa...you girls don't want TOO much, do you?
...dudes gotta be cute AND intelligent AND attentive/loving AND willing to maybe raise another man's child AND career driven/ambitious....umm anything else for madame? all i can say is you better bring one hell of a lot to the table yourself.
it reminds me of these ads i used to see again and again in the personals; 'SF ISO SM must be successful, professional, and willing to spend lots of time with me'
sorry babe; mutually exclusive desires.
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Post by Claire on Apr 8, 2008 7:35:06 GMT -5
Well yeah, don't you want us to be attractive, intelligent, attentive/loving/sexy, willing to put up with whatever inconveniences your disability may entail, and be hardworking (take care of the household chores and/or bring in some income?)
Which one of those would YOU want to do without?
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Post by E on Apr 8, 2008 9:25:24 GMT -5
The issue I am trying to discuss is what I perceive as EMOTIONAL self-absorbtion. That is a totally different thing, which is certainly not limited to the disabled population or to men. Unfortunately, it has been a big part of my personal experience with disabled guys. Again, only MY experience. That's what I thought you meant. This is, by far, one of the most insulting comments made about wheelers I've ever heard and the fact that it's coming from a person with some alleged understanding is just shocking. What you are saying is that a majority wheeler fathers don't have the capacity to love their children with the same selfless intensity that AB fathers do. I'd rather be called a cripple, thought asexual, have people pet my head, pray for me in public, try and push my chair, or say all the inane things people say -- all the things I've heard wheelers say bothers and offends them -- a THOUSAND TIMES before I'd want someone to think for a SECOND that I'm too "emotionally self-absorbed" because of my disability that I'm incapable of putting my own children first, which really means that I am incapable of loving them. Does that mean I also would care for my wife less? I wouldn't die for her like an AB man? If I can't sacrifice for my kids, surely I can't do so for my wife. How about a girlfriend? What about my siblings? Tell me, AB, do I love my mother less because I'm in a wheelchair? It's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous that I had to see you repeat it three times to believe that's what you really meant. I'm not sure there's a more horrific generalization you can make. Go ahead and assume I'm an incompetent retard, that's fine, but don't say that you believe I can't love like you, that I can't give of myself like you, that I can't sacrifice everything I have like you... because I'm disabled. And please, do not insult my intelligence by couching your most disturbing stereotype in the phrase "in MY experience." If that is your experience, then clearly the disabled men you have known were nothing but little boys... and I feel bad for you both.
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Post by E on Apr 8, 2008 9:29:01 GMT -5
...dudes gotta be cute AND intelligent AND attentive/loving AND willing to maybe raise another man's child AND career driven/ambitious....umm anything else for madame? all i can say is you better bring one hell of a lot to the table yourself. This would be why I expect a certain level of woman. Because, while cute is up for debate, the rest is just fact.
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