Phil
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by Phil on Apr 8, 2008 11:10:59 GMT -5
Wow, the generalizations here are somewhat staggering. I'm a quad and engaged to a woman that has 2 daughters. There's so much more to parenting than 2AM feedings or changing diapers. Cripesakes.
She accepts me, disability and all, for who I am. OK, I can't get up and feed a baby at 2AM. I also can't go jogging with her at 6AM. Big deal. There's lots of things she (and every other AB person) can't do. Should I judge her for that?
Back to parenting. My Dad was "old school". From what I heard, my Dad wouldn't know what end a diaper went on, how hot to warm formula or how to feed a squriming baby. Big deal. he was the greatest parent a kid could want. He taught his kids respect, honesty, integrity and how to love. He did so both in words and how he lived his life. He gave us the tools we'd need to succeed in life.
That is what a successful parent does. All it takes is a functioning brain and voice. The ability to lift a child off the floor doesn't constitute good parenting, just as the inability to do so doesn't constitute poor parenting. I feel bad I can't get up at 2AM, but that doesn't mean I don't contribute. I'll call a house cleaner to come in and go through the place. I'll send her fowers for no particular reason other than to say I Love You. I'll arrainge for a babysitter so we can eat out together. Sure, there's lots of things I can't do, but there's lots I can do. I don't fixate on those things I can't do. And I would never, in a million years, ever get into a relationship with a woman that would judge my abilities to parent on my ability to change a diaper OR my ability to love and show love on my physical being.
Phil
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2008 11:14:11 GMT -5
whoa...you girls don't want TOO much, do you? ...dudes gotta be cute AND intelligent AND attentive/loving AND willing to maybe raise another man's child AND career driven/ambitious....umm anything else for madame? I don't know, this seems like a pretty basic list to me. I suspect that most women are looking for these things as a minimum, with the possible exception of raising another's kid, but that's just a matter of statistics. Just remember that "cute" to women casts a much wider net than "hot" to men.
|
|
|
Post by Claire on Apr 8, 2008 11:35:08 GMT -5
There's so much more to parenting than 2AM feedings or changing diapers. .... He taught his kids respect, honesty, integrity and how to love. He did so both in words and how he lived his life. He gave us the tools we'd need to succeed in life. .... The ability to lift a child off the floor doesn't constitute good parenting, just as the inability to do so doesn't constitute poor parenting. THANK YOU Phil. Also remember, the 2am feedings and the lifting off the floor are a very short period of time. They grow up, and they grow up FAST, and then parenting becomes much more emotional and intellectual and not very physical at all. In fact, in no time they're doing chores for mom and dad! Voice of experience here.
|
|
|
Post by BA on Apr 8, 2008 18:46:35 GMT -5
If that is your experience, then clearly the disabled men you have known were nothing but little boys... and I feel bad for you both. It has been my experience, very unfortunately. I did give up on finding a wheeler that did have emotional maturity. You are correct in saying that they were nothing but little boys. I came to this board too late, but also with the hope of putting that experience to rest and to seeing a much wider representation of the wheeler community. It is just that certain comments earlier on in this post reminded me very much of things that were said to me by guys in past relationships and it opened up an old ugly wound for me. In fact, I have found many of the guys on this board to be quite the opposite of what I experienced in the past (including yourself). I am sorry if you honestly think that I was making a broad and blanket generalization about the entire male wheelchair community regarding this issue, when I have very, very, very blatantly and specifically stated in several posts that this was NOT a blanket generalization. If you do not believe that this has been my experience, or think that I am 'using' or 'couching' that to cover up a deep seated bias towards disabled guys, then I am really sorry, but it's just not true.
|
|
|
Post by Triassic on Apr 9, 2008 2:29:37 GMT -5
seems to me AB has every right to make reasonable generalizations based on her personal experience and from inferences based on the comments others have made. rational people do this all the time. it's only a problem if it becomes hidebound, absolutist. and i don't think that's what AB is about.
furthermore, she's RIGHT. at least to a degree. why? because I AM one of those 'emotionally self-absorbed' gimp dudes. i admit it. i accept it. and i don't apologize for it.
i find that coping with/managing/dealing with the direct and indirect effects of my disablement takes most of my mental energy, most of my time. so i don't take on one single extraneous responsibility/commitment/attachment(but i do try to discharge the duties and responsibilities which i DO have as best i can). i love dogs, but i don't own one. that's why.
the disability rights movement has done wonderful things, and i don't really want to dis it...but disability rights folks promote the notion that; 'the disabled are just like everyone else'. they advocate that disability is 'no big deal', 'normal', etc...independance, self-reliance, not letting the disability 'slow you down' are all big themes.
well...ok. maybe. for some. but it's not been my experience. and i'm not going to live as someone tells me i should, just because. so disability caused Self Focus could look a lot like 'emotional self absorption' perhaps. as i see it, the only issue is deception. if i spun some big story to a woman about how i saw us getting married, building a future, blah blah...just to get laid, then yeah, THAT WOULD be bad.
|
|
|
Post by BA on Apr 9, 2008 8:43:28 GMT -5
seems to me AB has every right to make reasonable generalizations based on her personal experience and from inferences based on the comments others have made. rational people do this all the time. it's only a problem if it becomes hidebound, absolutist. and i don't think that's what AB is about. furthermore, she's RIGHT. at least to a degree. why? because I AM one of those 'emotionally self-absorbed' gimp dudes. i admit it. i accept it. and i don't apologize for it so disability caused Self Focus could look a lot like 'emotional self absorption' perhaps. as i see it, the only issue is deception. if i spun some big story to a woman about how i saw us getting married, building a future, blah blah...just to get laid, then yeah, THAT WOULD be bad. You are right, Triassic, it is NOT what I am about at all. I think that your insight here is something I really needed to hear. Thank-you. My experience would have been quite different if I'd met people as self-aware and honest as you, who would have told me up-front instead of weaving grand tales in order to keep me in a relationship under false pretenses. As for being spun the great big story, you hit the NAIL ON THE HEAD and I suppose it has made me feel hurt and jaded. My stupidity and inexperience kept me in those relationships. You are absolutely right. It is my error to give this a label of "self-absorbtion", when perhaps it is a disability focus that does consume a great deal of time and energy. However, I still believe and know for a fact that there are disabled guys out there who are not self-focused. BTW, Tri, honesty, in the way you have expressed yourself in your post is not at all 'self-absorbed'.
|
|
|
Post by E on Apr 9, 2008 9:30:03 GMT -5
What I am talking about regarding this whole issue has NOTHING to do with PHYSICAL ABILITY. The issue I am trying to discuss is what I perceive as EMOTIONAL self-absorbtion. In a nutshell, you have summed up why I have found it so difficult to meet and sustain any type of long-term relationship with a disability, and ended up being with an non-disabled guy in the end. Finding a guy with a disabilty (SCI or not) who is a 100% contributor to the whole family/kids agenda is nearly impossible. You'd think there'd be a wheeler for every dev. However, the challenges become almost insurmountable when you factor in anything that smacks of real responsibilty. I'm not sure how anyone can read this and think that's an acceptable opinion. One more time: "...the challenges become almost insurmountable when you factor in anything that smacks of real responsibilty." Like having a successful marriage... or kids. Anything really meaningful in life that requires commitment and devotion. Anything besides just playing around. Maybe I'm the crazy one. Maybe there's nothing wrong with her thoughts at all. Hey, anything's possible...
|
|
|
Post by cunning69guy on Apr 9, 2008 11:08:24 GMT -5
AB,
Sorry you are getting so slammed. Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad that I hopefully cleared up some of what I perceived as a misunderstanding of some of the statements in my original post.
As to my ID here, sorry, no offense meant to you, devogirl (who apparently agrees with you on the subject of sexual innuendos in ID's here) or any of the other ladies, but changing my ID, that'd be like changing my personality.
In the long run, it probably doesn't matter as it's taken over 1 1/2 years to get to 60 posts, so I figure I'm not out posting constantly enough that I'm getting my name all over the board.
|
|
|
Post by BA on Apr 9, 2008 15:15:49 GMT -5
AB, In the long run, it probably doesn't matter as it's taken over 1 1/2 years to get to 60 posts, so I figure I'm not out posting constantly enough that I'm getting my name all over the board. Ahhh, but when you do post, you can't be missed! It is very easy to make the assumption that a guy with sexual innuendo in his screen name will be less easy to take seriously. You proved me wrong.... again. I don't feel that I am getting slammed, at least not unfairly. When I made an angry and frustrated post and threw it out there on the table I was certain that some people might have a strong reaction to it. It is so hard to convey your real emotions in a post, so you have to accept that people are going to interpret a post in their own way and respond accordingly. Everyone has their own take, based on their own frame of reference.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 9, 2008 21:18:51 GMT -5
i find that coping with/managing/dealing with the direct and indirect effects of my disablement takes most of my mental energy, most of my time. Hey, just curious, what requires so much mental energy? Do you have pain or other things you just can't ignore? I do my best not to think about my disability at all.
|
|
|
Post by E on Apr 10, 2008 8:07:32 GMT -5
i find that coping with/managing/dealing with the direct and indirect effects of my disablement takes most of my mental energy, most of my time. Hey, just curious, what requires so much mental energy? Do you have pain or other things you just can't ignore? I do my best not to think about my disability at all. I was curious about this, as well. I can't say I really spend any time thinking about my disability. I may take extra time to find accessible transportation when I travel and I may pay a bit extra for wheelchair seating at concerts, but that's about it...
|
|
|
Post by Triassic on Apr 10, 2008 15:37:07 GMT -5
good question...i think it may be like this. some people live very strongly in their bodies and senses, and some more in their minds or in their outward activities or in their human interactions. my dad for instance, was a physically strong, tough, fit man-a seasoned triathlete, in fact. but he did not 'live' in his body so much. he was a terrible driver, a hopeless dancer, he'd trip over things because he just wasnt very aware of how his body was in space. he didnt do stuff like sunbathe or take hot baths or anything luxurious. his idea of fine wine was-i kid you not-gallo red on ice. but he WOULD NOT QUIT a roadrace no matter how bad he felt. i don't think paralysis would have bothered him unduly. he would have just switched to w/c sports. he got him rewards from accomplishment and achievvement. i'm sure there are severely disabled guys who BARELY NOTICE their impairments because they're so into their research or deals or whatever it is. but i'm diffrent. i live very much in my bodily senses. i'm hyper aware of both pleasures and sufferings. i'm totally a sensualist. so for me to just try to ignore my physical problems wouldnt work. it'd be a lie. but i manage. i work it out. i've found that there are things i can do to help. and i'm trying to maintain as much physical strength as possible. so i have to make effort there.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 10, 2008 16:02:14 GMT -5
some people live very strongly in their bodies and senses, and some more in their minds or in their outward activities or in their human interactions... . i live very much in my bodily senses. i'm hyper aware of both pleasures and sufferings. i'm totally a sensualist. so for me to just try to ignore my physical problems wouldnt work. it'd be a lie. Interesting, I would have pegged you for the opposite of what you are describing. You seem to do way more self-analysis and introspective thinking than virtually any guy I know. If we were both looking at a chick with a nice ass, you would give some detailed description about the particular curves and shape that made it appealing to you. I would say, "nice ass."
|
|
|
Post by laurasweetou on Apr 10, 2008 21:46:37 GMT -5
WOW! I have to say with my experience (bad ones) and maybe just who I am, I am with AB. Everything I've read says we are very similar, except I haven't found my prince charming yet...
|
|
|
Post by problemlover on Apr 11, 2008 10:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone who posted.Pesonal opinions or experiences are just that. Personal,but it's good to know we can share.I don't know about what your situation was and no one knows mine but if we share we can gain insight to other points of veiw.I def found answers to a lot of q's in my head from this one post and I look forward to learning from other posts as well. So thanks to everybody for sharing their thoughts.
|
|