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Post by BA on May 21, 2007 19:20:49 GMT -5
Not to in any way belittle what's being described here, because I'm sure it's not nearly the same, but I get a similar feeling when I see one particular female. It goes away when I'm actually hanging out/talking to her, but when I see her car somewhere, or I realize she's entered the room I'm in, etc. I get this really anxious, intense feeling near my gut. And I promise I'm not obsessed over her or anything. The real reason it reminded me of what you described, and not just regular anxiety, is that afterwards I feel drained, empty, and tired... and it's stressful. It sucks the life out of me. Sometimes, I'm glad when I know she's out of town, because I don't get a piece of it every time I see a similar vehicle... or my phone rings and I think it's her. I have a question, though. You say it only happens the first time you read a story, see a movie, picture, etc. What about a real person? After a while, does that guy cease to cause this sensation? E.... let me tell you there is NOTHING unpleasant in my personal sensation at all. No gut sucking anxiety. I reserve those feelings for airplane travel and high bridges. This is an extremely pleasant feeling, albeit intense as hell. In my case, it does NOT go away, no matter how long I have known the guy. It may wane if we had been arguing, but it always finds its way back. Now, I haven't been in a relationship with a wheeler dude for 20 plus years, but I was in one for 4 years and that feeling was there.... and I was still young and not yet "in full bloom", if you will. Sex with an able-bodied guy is so pale in comparison... it's not even worth comparing, sad to say. Maybe, one day, I will feel differently, but I highly doubt it. I know who puts the BING on my cherry! |
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Post by Claire on May 21, 2007 20:02:10 GMT -5
Cake, have you ever actually been with a guy who arouses those kinds of feelings? I haven't. I wonder if part of the "darkness" and even the depression you mention just has to do with a sense of longing...wanting something/someone so much and you can't have it. That's how it feels to me.
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Post by Ouch on May 21, 2007 21:13:38 GMT -5
E, how are you connected with this woman...? I'm not implying any formal relations, but it sounds like you know her to some consistent degree...is she a co-worker...etc.? Have your interactions eclipsed 'normal'...? it would be interesting to evaluate what you feel with what Devs feel...
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Post by devogirl on May 21, 2007 21:29:51 GMT -5
E, no offence, but what you describe sounds like an ordinary crush. I have experienced that nervous, jittery feeling around that one special person too, but this is something totally different. It seems to happen more randomly and unpredictably, but always in response to a disabled guy.
When I'm dating a real person, yes, it does decrease in frequency over time, but by then the relationship has other dimensions, not just the physical. And even at the beginning of a relationship, it doesn't always happen when I'm around the person, more likely when I'm just thinking about him. It is different from feeling sexually aroused, or having a crush.
The more we discuss this, the more I am convinced it is this sensation above all else that makes me a devotee. Regardless of what causes that feeling in the stomach, it's definitely associated with a quick, sudden shot of endorphins, which is just about the most addictive thing in the world. No wonder I have spent so much time searching for things that would trigger it.
And yes, I did used to experience that intense longing, but that was when I felt like disabled guys lived in some other world and I could never meet them. Once I got over that and figured out how to meet them, that sense of hopeless longing went away.
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Post by Valkyrja on May 21, 2007 21:33:27 GMT -5
... I have a question, though. You say it only happens the first time you read a story, see a movie, picture, etc. What about a real person? After a while, does that guy cease to cause this sensation? For me E, the sensation becomes stronger after a while. It happens to me every time. I never dated a "chairdude", I only met one once when I was a teenager... but he had girlfriend. I could hardly look at him because his only presence aroused me. Besides, he was so funy and had a strong personality!!,.... Wow... this was an unconfess secret. It was only mine. Now I've shared it. I was 20 and he was 26. |
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Post by dolly on May 22, 2007 0:00:26 GMT -5
wow. it's so cool to hear people talking about and putting into words what has always been the very essence of my devness. thank you thank you thank you. it's so good to know you understand.  |
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Post by Triassic on May 22, 2007 1:36:50 GMT -5
How strange that this 'shock', this pain, this twisty-stomach thing hasn't been ever mentioned here before.
Maybe it's due to the surprise of suddenly seeing the object of your desires when you're unprepared for it?
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anais
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Post by anais on May 22, 2007 5:02:21 GMT -5
So, seems like there is a consensus that the essence of devness is this sharp feeling, this pain. But I think we need a control group for the research  - does anything alike happen to non-devs, other people when they are near the object of their desires? I also agree, that this feeling is very reinforcing, and therefore very addictive, so you gotta spend alot of energy to find it again and again... The strange thing for me, is that I rarely experience it near real disabled guys- and perhaps that is the reason why I was never looking for real relationship with them. It does happen as a reaction to visual stimuli (movies, images books- I tend to visualize what I read). It also happen as a reation to my imagination- but then I always feel somethin like a dead end, the imagination gets stuck after a while, and than I feel emptiness and sometimes even nausea. Besides, for me those fantasies never go beyond watching, touching or being around- sex is never involved in them. I think that this "sweet pain" provides an explanation for the often spoken specificity in devo's preeferences. I believe that there are only a small amount of scenes/visions/situations that trigger this response. It is like a conditioned response- probably once, many years ago, a very powerful emotion somehow was bound to disability through another mediator (expression of love, something fearful or surprizing). Than specific type of disability is automaticly turning on this intense feeling. May be the next step is to find out and share what exactly is the moment that turns it on, what is the specific scene, if there is one, for each one of us that switches the "burst of endorphines". |
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Post by Claire on May 22, 2007 5:58:05 GMT -5
E, no offence, but what you describe sounds like an ordinary crush. I have experienced that nervous, jittery feeling around that one special person too, but this is something totally different. It seems to happen more randomly and unpredictably, but always in response to a disabled guy. I'm with devogirl here, although I'd say that no crush is ever ordinary! It's painful, leaves us exhausted, etc. I know that feeling too, been there (who hasn't!). For me it's akin to the "devo rush" but not quite there. The devo rush has a deep sexual, almost animal quality to it, instinctive and uncontrollable. A sudden release of endorphins sounds like a plausible explanation, but it feels nothing like the endorphin rush I experience during a hard workout, either. There's more going on than that. |
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Post by Cake on May 22, 2007 10:29:56 GMT -5
Cake, have you ever actually been with a guy who arouses those kinds of feelings? I haven't. I wonder if part of the "darkness" and even the depression you mention just has to do with a sense of longing...wanting something/someone so much and you can't have it. That's how it feels to me. The longing may be a part of it, but I'm convinced that there's more to it. Whether you would describe it as "pain" or "twinge", it's obviously a sensation you can't compare to any other. And it is a devo thing. I once described it to my best friend, which is an extremely sexual person, assuming that this twisting-stomach-thing would be what happened to every women who gets sexually aroused by surprise, i.e. the lust non-devos feel with a able bodied man. But it isn't. My friend told me what she experiences as lust or sexual arousal is nothing like my devo-sweet-pain-twinge. You could say now that this is something very individual, but read this thread and it gets pretty obvious that it's apparently something every dev has, no matter if she's had relationships with wheeler dudes or not. This discussion leads us to a delicate question we've never discussed on this board: When you are a devotee, are you, in some way, attracted to pain? I don't talk about the kinky self destructive or sadistic thing, it's much more subtle. Let's be honest, disability always comes along with pain; physically, mentally or/and both. When we feel attracted to men with a disability, aren't we automatically attracted to the pain, too? Even if we don't think it, even if we won't admit it. This is why the analogy "I like blond guys / I like paraplegic guys" doesn't work. For me it never did. Have you ever heard from a women who's attracted to men with blond hair that she feels a sweet pain, a sudden uncontrollable inner twinge when she sees a movie with a hot blond guy in it or meets one? Of course not. Apart from the fact that he has blond hair, there's nothing SPECIFIC the guy does. His hair doesn't influence all aspects of his life. Blond hair doesn't make him stronger, it doesn't make him wiser, it doesn't hurt him. As anais said, I think it would be interesting to share now what triggers our "twinge". Maybe each of us has individual triggers, but what I'm absolutely sure about is that in every case the "trigger" is somewhat connected to some sort of pain, even if only in the end, even if you wouldn't think about pain there in the first place. What do you think? |
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anais
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Post by anais on May 22, 2007 12:15:03 GMT -5
Cake, to be completely honest, you are right. Actually it is the pain which trigers the rush for me. It can be either mental or physical suffering, but it is there. The pain can be expressed straightforwardly, or in opposite, be hidden by a strong will, but it is one of the main charachters of the play. Naturally, it is hard to admit, coz it arouses feelings of guilt, and connotations to sadism (which is obviously a different story, since you are the coz of the pain there), not very accepted way of life in our society. What does it makes us? Parazytes, vampires living on the pain of others? Dark creatures? I don't think so. I believe, that the attraction to the pain comes together with a wish to relieve this pain. In my fantasy, I am the one who shares and then somehow manages to undo the guy's pain. So perhaps, it is a twisted altruistic thing, a need to feel important, I don't know. What I do know, is that in my story, pain serves the function of what in classic non-devo's stories would occasionally serve the elements of male physical strenth and domination (e.g- "saving a damzel in distress")- muscles, money, position etc. In those stories, women tend to get attracted to the "knight in the shining armour" who is their savior. In my stories, I am the knight and the guy's ditress is his pain. (I think I am blushing typing it, feeling a sort of embarrasment. Can't relieve myself completely from those guilt feelings)
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Post by Chan on May 22, 2007 12:55:13 GMT -5
it gets pretty obvious that it's apparently something every dev has No, actually. I can honestly say I don't ever have anything comparable to "sweet pain" (which I hate saying, it sounds just...ridiculous). I do, of course, get the accelerated heart-rate and the excitement from seeing or interacting with certain wheeler guys, but no kind of gut-wrenching longing or hopeless desire most of you have mentioned. I, seemingly the only one so far, just can't relate to the Ambrosia Effect (thanks, Windrider, that's less painful to say). The excitement and desire's there, but that's about it. |
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Post by Ouch on May 22, 2007 16:49:22 GMT -5
Hmm...actually what cake and anais have said would support a thought of mine behind a possible explanation of devo-ism...a sort of symbiological sympathy pain of sorts...hard to explain in more elabourate words, at least right now...
...strangely enough, I figured you'd be the 'wild card' so to speak, Chan...as you seem to be unique even within the unique in many cases. I don't think (unless I've gravely misinterpreted, in which case, someone slap me) all devs necessarily have a longing and hopelessness (at least the later) type of feeling/sensation, I think that's just another aspect of that happens in certain situations with the Ambrosia Effect, and is not directly the effect itself...it seems most are descibing almost a good pain...kinda' like when you stretch out in the morning, or whenever, or perhaps 'pop' a joint...it kinda' has a shock and perhaps a burn to it, but it feels good over all, and you can usually feel the chemicals coming from your brain to relax or revitalise you...in the dev case, it's like more of a adrenaline reaction though...at least how I'm interpreting it...
...do I got it right...?
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Post by BA on May 22, 2007 19:57:47 GMT -5
Hmm...actually what cake and anais have said would support a thought of mine behind a possible explanation of devo-ism...a sort of symbiological sympathy pain of sorts...hard to explain in more elabourate words, at least right now... No, in my case there is no "sympathy/symbiosis" pain, as it were. It is an interesting theory. This is the sweet pain of a purely sensual/sexual sort. I am certain beyond a doubt that alot of women experience it with a man they are strongly attracted to. Strong sexual desire, for women does cause contraction and congestion of all the pelvic organs and perhaps the "pain" part has been inaccurately described by me as actual "pain". It doesn't hurt, but it's intensity (like that of too much tickling) can be almost too much to bear without a release. (Think "blue balls" guys and you know the pain I am talking about). To put it bluntly, my "ambrosia effect", for lack of a better term, results in extreme "lubrication" and the desire to be touched. Maybe I am unique in that my feelings are so unabashedly sexual in this area. |
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Post by dolly on May 22, 2007 21:58:36 GMT -5
the "ambrosia effect" (lol) is strongest for me when watching films, fantasizing, watching from a distance unobserved. it's strength seems to heighten with distance for me. with wheelers i've known it would 'kick in' sometimes when watching from a distance ie. across a room. but when i am actually with a wheeler i like, face-to-face in person, i feel more what chan describes. which is how i think most girls feel when they're in close proximity to someone who turns them on.
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- does anything alike happen to non-devs, other people when they are near the object of their desires? 
