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Post by wonk on Mar 1, 2021 20:49:56 GMT -5
I am yet to be vaccinated. Thank you very much for the info and for creating the thread. I think I will go for it only if I am formally or informally forced by the overall situation. Honestly speaking once the vulnerable ones are (allegedly) protected, I will absolutely care less than 0 about this virus thing. This is me...I don't expect you to share my opinion and I respect yours, no problem. If I am forced into getting vaccinated I will pose a strict condition, either getting the Gamaleya's (Sputnik) or facing my refusal. Hard to beat Russians on quality when it comes to vaccines or military air manufacturing... Dude, if you are a T3 para, then I would consider YOU, with your reduced lung capacity to be one of the vulnerable onesI actually waited 4 hours to respond so I didn't rage. No one will ever convince hardcore antivaxxers, because it is like a religion and they worship antivaxx Jesus Andrew Wakefield. Vaccine hesitancy, seems much more reasonable, but it really tends to be a case of the Dunning Kruger effect, where people overestimate their competence in the subject. Mostly they are generally ignorant, and just don't know what they don't know. Even intelligent people can fall into this category, as they are not experts in this area, however I have found the more intelligent a person is, the more they are prepared to change their opinion when presented with some facts and a good argument. The more people refuse the vaccines, the greater the chance for mutations. The chance of a recombinant virus is also greater. We have been fairly lucky with this virus, in that it has a moderate CFR and transmissability. It has also given us the chance to get MRNA vaccines to market, which could deal with much worse viruses in the future. It could easily have had the CFR of MERS and the R0 of measles.
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Post by darthoso on Mar 1, 2021 20:50:11 GMT -5
Not vaccinated yet (CO is still in a much-too-complicated first phase), but I'll get it when it's time. I've heard the moral argument that PWD's should be higher priority, but whose grandma/grandpa are you willing to knock out of line in order to get in line? The ones not taking this pandemic seriously. Plus the risk to pretty much every PWD on this board is higher than your typical 65 year old. I get that the government wants to keep distribution simple and efficient however every single one of us who receives HCBS is registered with our state and local government. Having a set aside supply of vaccines for that population group would make all the sense in the world, just like they did for nursing homes. There is now ample data to suggest that covid got into nursing homes from the staff, HCBS has the exact same risk and in many states it is being ignored. So I find no moral problems if anyone decides to jump the line.
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joe89
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Post by joe89 on Mar 2, 2021 7:07:00 GMT -5
I am yet to be vaccinated. Thank you very much for the info and for creating the thread. I think I will go for it only if I am formally or informally forced by the overall situation. Honestly speaking once the vulnerable ones are (allegedly) protected, I will absolutely care less than 0 about this virus thing. This is me...I don't expect you to share my opinion and I respect yours, no problem. If I am forced into getting vaccinated I will pose a strict condition, either getting the Gamaleya's (Sputnik) or facing my refusal. Hard to beat Russians on quality when it comes to vaccines or military air manufacturing... Dude, if you are a T3 para, then I would consider YOU, with your reduced lung capacity to be one of the vulnerable onesI actually waited 4 hours to respond so I didn't rage. No one will ever convince hardcore antivaxxers, because it is like a religion and they worship antivaxx Jesus Andrew Wakefield. Vaccine hesitancy, seems much more reasonable, but it really tends to be a case of the Dunning Kruger effect, where people overestimate their competence in the subject. Mostly they are generally ignorant, and just don't know what they don't know. Even intelligent people can fall into this category, as they are not experts in this area, however I have found the more intelligent a person is, the more they are prepared to change their opinion when presented with some facts and a good argument. The more people refuse the vaccines, the greater the chance for mutations. The chance of a recombinant virus is also greater. We have been fairly lucky with this virus, in that it has a moderate CFR and transmissability. It has also given us the chance to get MRNA vaccines to market, which could deal with much worse viruses in the future. It could easily have had the CFR of MERS and the R0 of measles. Hello, first, no need to rage please. That's absolutely not my intention. I am far from being a no Vax, I take all jabs needed when needed. This time I simply feel like I don't need it...like for the flue. I have a great immune system and I retrieved a very good lung capacity. I might be not as a complete para as they insist apparently...but despite my superheavy pneumothorax and high level SCI I have around 7 liters of vital lung capacity. That's quite a lot for a standard person too as far as I know. I should have better underlined, that I am speaking about my personal case. If you see yourself as vulnerable, please get the vaccine. No questions. I am not highly competent in the matter, not pretending to be, and not willing to be actually. I just consider how the nature works...mutations tend to be faster to spread but less letal. What would be the point for the virus to kill its vector? All in all, I prefer to let the thing go and keep my immune system trained. If you have even a small doubt you could have major damages from a respiratory viral issue, do it. Voilà...
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Post by shadow on Mar 2, 2021 14:24:29 GMT -5
Dude, if you are a T3 para, then I would consider YOU, with your reduced lung capacity to be one of the vulnerable onesI actually waited 4 hours to respond so I didn't rage. No one will ever convince hardcore antivaxxers, because it is like a religion and they worship antivaxx Jesus Andrew Wakefield. Vaccine hesitancy, seems much more reasonable, but it really tends to be a case of the Dunning Kruger effect, where people overestimate their competence in the subject. Mostly they are generally ignorant, and just don't know what they don't know. Even intelligent people can fall into this category, as they are not experts in this area, however I have found the more intelligent a person is, the more they are prepared to change their opinion when presented with some facts and a good argument. The more people refuse the vaccines, the greater the chance for mutations. The chance of a recombinant virus is also greater. We have been fairly lucky with this virus, in that it has a moderate CFR and transmissability. It has also given us the chance to get MRNA vaccines to market, which could deal with much worse viruses in the future. It could easily have had the CFR of MERS and the R0 of measles. Hello, first, no need to rage please. That's absolutely not my intention. I am far from being a no Vax, I take all jabs needed when needed. This time I simply feel like I don't need it...like for the flue. I have a great immune system and I retrieved a very good lung capacity. I might be not as a complete para as they insist apparently...but despite my superheavy pneumothorax and high level SCI I have around 7 liters of vital lung capacity. That's quite a lot for a standard person too as far as I know. I should have better underlined, that I am speaking about my personal case. If you see yourself as vulnerable, please get the vaccine. No questions. I am not highly competent in the matter, not pretending to be, and not willing to be actually. I just consider how the nature works...mutations tend to be faster to spread but less letal. What would be the point for the virus to kill its vector? All in all, I prefer to let the thing go and keep my immune system trained. If you have even a small doubt you could have major damages from a respiratory viral issue, do it. Voilà... Nope nope, you’re not allowed to make your own medical decisions for yourself without being accused of being a selfish POS. My turn! I’m also not an anti-vaxxer, I don’t claim to be an expert on covid or the vaccine, I’m definitely not completely ignorant either, and I don’t plan to get the shot in the near future either. It’s my decision what I put into my body & unless someone else knows me and my medical history, I’m not too concerned if that’s a problem for them.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Mar 2, 2021 14:30:39 GMT -5
I have no plans on getting the vaccine any time soon. I haven't had a flu shot in the last 20 years either, so I'm not going to start with an experimental vaccine that was rushed through into production. I have no problems with those who want to get it; my dad got it, my boss got it. I just have zero interest in it at this time. I'm a social hermit, anyway, so I'll just do what I do and practice hygienic and sane social distancing.
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Post by darthoso on Mar 2, 2021 16:02:44 GMT -5
Hello, first, no need to rage please. That's absolutely not my intention. I am far from being a no Vax, I take all jabs needed when needed. This time I simply feel like I don't need it...like for the flue. I have a great immune system and I retrieved a very good lung capacity. I might be not as a complete para as they insist apparently...but despite my superheavy pneumothorax and high level SCI I have around 7 liters of vital lung capacity. That's quite a lot for a standard person too as far as I know. I should have better underlined, that I am speaking about my personal case. If you see yourself as vulnerable, please get the vaccine. No questions. I am not highly competent in the matter, not pretending to be, and not willing to be actually. I just consider how the nature works...mutations tend to be faster to spread but less letal. What would be the point for the virus to kill its vector? All in all, I prefer to let the thing go and keep my immune system trained. If you have even a small doubt you could have major damages from a respiratory viral issue, do it. Voilà... Nope nope, you’re not allowed to make your own medical decisions for yourself without being accused of being a selfish POS. My turn! I’m also not an anti-vaxxer, I don’t claim to be an expert on covid or the vaccine, I’m definitely not completely ignorant either, and I don’t plan to get the shot in the near future either. It’s my decision what I put into my body & unless someone else knows me and my medical history, I’m not too concerned if that’s a problem for them. I mean if I or a lot of the 'vulnerable' can't have PCA services for another year because a new variant went wild, I'm going to start calling some people selfish. I would highly encourage you guys to get the vaccine, not for you, but for us. One of the vaccines is already questionable with respect to the South African variant. The UK variant was discovered in December and will be the dominated variant in the US this month. There is zero reason why an even more deadly and contagious variant couldn't do the same and render the current vaccines and immunity useless. Boosters are already being worked on but the infrastructure to produce enough vaccines for a new variant, in 3 months, doesn't exist. Meaning we could be back to lock downs and us vulnerable could be institutionalized as HCBS collapses more and more. An SMAer I know had no choice but to be cared for by her 2 COVID sick aides. So by not taking the vaccine, you could screw the rest of us by making the vaccines useless. If another variant goes wild and governments have to lock down again, then vaccine passports (to go to the store) and mandatory vaccination of an even more rushed vaccine will be a thing.
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Post by someonerandom on Mar 2, 2021 16:53:27 GMT -5
I want to make sure I am understanding some of these posts correctly. Based on my reading of this thread, Joe and shadow (I’ll just leave braced out of this since I know he’s basically a hermit) are more fearful/concerned about the novel vaccine than they are of the novel virus. What we know about the vaccine is that it has been given to millions of people with mild side effects thus far, and it produces immunity and likely reduces the spread of the virus. The virus on the other hand produces death (in the millions currently) and long-term disability in some people, and can be spread asymptomatically even by perfectly healthy people. Additionally, the longer this virus gets spread the more variants we are discovering, and while viruses usually mutate into less dangerous more spreadable versions, they don’t always, and can still be dangerous.
What I’m also understanding based on shadow’s last post is that if we are angered by people refusing to get the vaccine, or find their thought process selfish and ignorant, and we choose to express that on this forum, we are stifling the conversation and basically doing a bad thing.
Is there some part of this I am mistaken about?
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Post by Slinxter on Mar 2, 2021 18:01:21 GMT -5
This is the part that scares me for pwds: "What Melissa Hickson says happened to her husband — and what the hospital says — are in conflict. But this much is for sure: Michael Hickson, a 46-year old quadriplegic who'd contracted COVID-19, died at St. David's South Austin Medical Center in Austin, Texas, on June 11 after the hospital ended treatment for him and moved him from the intensive care unit to hospice care. Melissa Hickson says her husband was denied potentially lifesaving treatment because doctors at the hospital made a decision based on their biases that, because of his disabilities, Michael Hickson had a low quality of life. The hospital says it acted based on the man's dire medical prognosis and that it would have been pointless and cruel to give him invasive treatment. Michael Hickson's death has become a cause among many with disabilities, an emblem of a medical system that they believe views their lives as having less value, even before a pandemic put doctors and hospitals under stress." www.npr.org/2020/07/31/896882268/one-mans-covid-19-death-raises-the-worst-fears-of-many-people-with-disabilitiesRegardless of whether you think you will be fine if you catch COVID, if you are not fine, you are way more screwed than I am. You are potentially setting yourself up for someone you don't know to make a judgement call about whether your life is worthy.
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Post by infinatedreams on Mar 2, 2021 18:08:25 GMT -5
Additionally, the longer this virus gets spread the more variants we are discovering, and while viruses usually mutate into less dangerous more spreadable versions, they don’t always, and can still be dangerous. and as if the virus was listening. 'Evidence continues to mount that the so-called U.K. variant is "likely" deadlier and results in more hospitalizations than non-variant COVID-19 cases, according to data released on a British government website. The report compiled research from major universities and studies and found "increased severity" of COVID-19 cases from the B.1.1.7 variant compared to "non-variants of concern," with B.1.1.7 cases anywhere from 30% to 70% deadlier than the original wild-type strain.' www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91202And yup the brazilian one is worse (more likley to bypass the imune responce) so it is really important folk get vaccinated, hell even DT has had the jab despite denying Covid was a 'thing'.
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Post by lars on Mar 2, 2021 18:23:54 GMT -5
2021:
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gimp3590
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Post by gimp3590 on Mar 2, 2021 18:35:05 GMT -5
i could be wrong but it's my understanding that the current Covid vaccine was manufactured in such a way so that if the virus evolves/changes the vaccine would still help protect against it. i really don't understand why you would not get the vaccine unless you are waiting for a more complete version like the Johnson and Johnson one. people are dying at an alarming rate and if a large amount of people don't get vaccinated this virus might not ever go away.
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Post by Corey on Mar 2, 2021 18:42:29 GMT -5
This discussion reminds me of a clip from the comedian Bill Burr, about what would happen if the people who dont want to get the vaccine were actually right. It made me laugh, hopefully will make some of you laugh too. I am not highly competent in the matter, not pretending to be, and not willing to be actually. I just consider how the nature works...mutations tend to be faster to spread but less letal. What would be the point for the virus to kill its vector? Yeah that's a good point. One thing you should consider though is that there are genetic mutations that predispose someone to having severe symptoms with Covid. And there's no way to know if you have these variants or not because at the moment there is no genetic test for them. The chances are low, but probably much higher than the chance of you getting an adverse reaction from the vaccine. At the moment there is no shortage of demand for the vaccine, so I don't think it's a problem if you don't want to get it now. But you may want to consider it in the future when it becomes more readily available
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Post by darthoso on Mar 2, 2021 18:51:11 GMT -5
i could be wrong but it's my understanding that the current Covid vaccine was manufactured in such a way so that if the virus evolves/changes the vaccine would still help protect against it. i really don't understand why you would not get the vaccine unless you are waiting for a more complete version like the Johnson and Johnson one. people are dying at an alarming rate and if a large amount of people don't get vaccinated this virus might not ever go away. Some of the vaccines seem better than others with regard to the new variants. Even the good ones, like moderna, are developing a third dose targeted at the new variants. The problem is time, by time it is approved and manufactured, a new variant could dominant.
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joe89
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Post by joe89 on Mar 2, 2021 18:51:44 GMT -5
Gosh...at least it looks like I have a talent in prodding people to discuss 😌 I should think of making a business out of it 😁 good luck to everyone and please go for vaccination. The more people go the faster we will speak about Greta Thunberg again! Shalom 🙂
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Post by lars on Mar 2, 2021 19:53:14 GMT -5
Gosh...at least it looks like I have a talent in prodding people to discuss 😌 I should think of making a business out of it 😁 good luck to everyone and please go for vaccination. The more people go the faster we will speak about Greta Thunberg again! Shalom 🙂 Also in the news: Genuinely, nothing personal - I was grimacing earlier how this looked like it was heading towards another nasty welcome for a newbie. I'm glad to read you've laughing about making a business out of it - this would make a great example of how to avoid some legendary PD landmines, and now you're handing it with style! Your handbike is looking fast, well done! Out of curiosity, what kind of test was used to measure your lung capacity?
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