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Post by Dee Dee on Apr 12, 2013 10:48:14 GMT -5
Then there's the fact that for some people, having a lot of disabled folks on their friend list does raise flags. For example, I have a lot of gay friends on facebook, but I also know all of them in person either form gay rights campaigns or just random places and I've also never cared whether someone thinks I'm a lesbian or not. But I know very few pwds in real life and it would be obvious I met that entire f-list demographic online (if anything, just from their names). So, either almost everyone I meet online turns out to be disabled, or I'm somehow looking for guys in chairs. Again, if my interest in wheelers is something I want to keep to myself, I wouldn't add too many guys from here either. Ableism is an issue, but I really don't think that's what this is about. You have to take into consideration that not all devs are out, and that doesn't mean they think of wheeleres as "less than human", they just don't want the people close to them to know about their devness. Why people are afraid to come out to the general public is another question, but it can't be blamed on objectifying people with disabilities. Nas, you are saying what I was thinking. Being friends with disabled men on facebook or other very open social forums can be an issue for some devotees - exactly because they do not want to out their sexual interests. What if a devotee is 20 years old and needs to wrap her head around the fact that she is a devotee? What if people are going to question her: "Hey - you have 20 new friends on facebook, all in wheelchairs, what is that all about?" People will wonder. Very few devotees are as publicly open about it as Ruth Madison for example. I find it to be completely okay to keep one´s sexual interests to oneself. It does not have to do with possible wheelers on one´s facebook, it has to do with keeping one´s sexuality and the many, many questions that arise from that, private and with peers.
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Post by Dee Dee on Apr 12, 2013 11:12:50 GMT -5
Another point I would like to make is that not every devotee lives in sexually open societies. I come from a culture, where sex is not taboo, and one which works to have equal sexual rights for different kinds of people - something which I personally am happy about.
But there are societies, where sex is taboo. There are also male-dominated societies, where female sexual interests are not valued as highly as the male ones. There are societies, where religious interests play into questions about sexuality. All of these, and more, can also be reasons a devotee wants to fly under the radar with her sexual interests. Add to that all the intricacies and power relations between parents and children - i.e. not many of us want to discuss our sexuality with our parents (who also happen to be on facebook and elsewhere these days).
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Apr 12, 2013 11:27:12 GMT -5
Since we seem to be derailing the fabulous possibility for wheelers to freely express what they dislike about devs... I'm opening another thread and calling it "The Secrecy" for us to defend ourselves over there. It would be great if we could listen/read the stuff they have to say without feeling the strong need to defend ourselves/justify how we behave. Which might foster more open communication... but since we apparently can't. Lets do it outside this space and get it back on track.
A$$y, Alf, that was some valuable honesty. Thank you. I hope that other guys take the opportunity to share as well.
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Post by Dee Dee on Apr 12, 2013 18:45:25 GMT -5
You know what - this is too much censorship! We are having a serious, deep discussion about a comment, someone made pertaining to that question - how can that be derailing? And why are two people - who are not moderators and not involved in that particular discussion - deciding that that is derailing and that another thread needs to be opened up? I do not get it. I have been here for four years and the discussions have been flowing freely. Now we have to limit ourselves or wait for the "right" thread to post? Why? I feel like contributing with serious, deep, heart-felt comments - and then being accused of derailing. That hurts It feels like we have to stick to a certain agenda. I think that is strange, not to say wrong. I do not think that it says anywhere that we cannot discuss certain answers within this thread. And back on that specific topic: yes, I understand where A§§y is coming from, and in an ideal world no one would have to keep their sexualities secret. But I can certainly also understand why a lot of devotees - who have not come out to their immediate family or are married to a disabled person - DO want to keep their devoteeism a secret or just be silent about it. As I said before, this has nothing to do with objectifying the disabled persons at all, it has to do with the dev herself and her priorities.
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Post by A££Y "Cuddles" Magoo on Apr 12, 2013 19:32:40 GMT -5
I wonder if we should substitute "devotee" with "fan"? That word has so many positive connotations, does it not? A§§y - I think I understand what you are saying, but I also think that you have to remember how difficult, not to say impossible, it can be for anyone to share a sexual interest with the rest of the world (i.e. facebook). If a girl appears to have 20 disabled friends on facebook, then eventually someone is going to ask her about that - and if she likes to keep quiet about her being a devotee, then that question can be very hard to answer for her. Remember, it is not about being friends, it is about her fear of being questioned. Maybe you can compare it to you having, say, a sexual interest that is not so common. If you think about it, would it be easy for you to share that? I think most people find it hard. Also, a lot of devotees/fans ( are equally attracted to able-bodied men (myself included). So, it is not about "settling", it is about finding Mr. Right, whether he is able-bodied or not. It is not because we renounce our being fans, it is about finding the right guy I really do understand the fear, I really do. this is just the other side of coin if u will. I mean regular girls add me all the time and they have no interest in me sexaully or romanticly. It's kind of a frustrating paradox don't u think? lol I mean to me anyone who would ask why ur friends with a wheeler or two, and someone who really gives a damn at that, is an absolute douche! haha. And I was referring more to women who refuse to add ONE wheeler as opposed to 20. But I guess it doesn't really make a difference. If u have 20 wheelers then what's one more? and if u have none to begin with then what's one wheeler u know? lol. And I'm very well aware that some devs are 50/50. In that case it doesn't bother as much. What bothers me are the devs who clearly prefer wheelers but continue to go after ABs because of whatever reason. Like I said before, they look at someone like Ruth getting married and they look at it like a golden goose or something. And I just think why. I wish I could be purely empathetic towards devs all of the time, but I guess I'm a lil more selfish than I thought... And once again, I'm not renouncing any of u. we're good got it.
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Apr 12, 2013 21:09:54 GMT -5
No one is trying to keep you from discussing it. That's why I opened up a thread JUST FOR this discussion. (The Secrecy) As a group, we've done that for other good topics that have come up in the Ask a Wheeler and Ask a Dev threads. The reason for moving it was to keep from bogging this thread down with a bunch of dev responses and hoping to get more wheelers to answer the question. Ladyliz asked a great question... a hard question. I have asked the similar questions in professional situations, and when you ask it you have to be ready to not respond to what's said with a bunch of defensiveness. Because that can easily close the door you were trying to open. We were hoping that by moving THAT stuff some of the other guys might be inclined to follow A$$y and alf's examples and post their own reservations and/or problems with devs. I still hope that some of the guys will be able to do that. I'm not a moderator and don't pretend to be. I was just hoping to redirect back to the question and encourage more guys to respond to Ladyliz's question by letting them know that we can listen to this without needing to defend. Because I really think there might be some more great discussion to be had.
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Post by lavly on Apr 12, 2013 23:34:46 GMT -5
I just want to say I so can't get enough of this board lately ... Thanks for all the ppl that are adding to this thread ... Love this question lady !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 18:27:11 GMT -5
I think that it can be true that some Devs aren't comfortable with their interest or desires. For some, they are simply uncomfortable publically. I think it's very similiar to wheelers or amputees that are uncomfortable with their revised bodies. Many of us are slightly unstable with our self-esteems...and that can bleed into a relationship. I have observed uncertainty and instability from both groups. For me...Ideally, If I were considering a candidate for a long term relationship...I'd want someone bold, confident, and one that's comfortable with all of her lovely facets.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 23:30:43 GMT -5
Ok, hoping for some humor here, so what is the funniest question or comment someone has made to you about your disability?
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Post by Max on Apr 15, 2013 0:32:39 GMT -5
That's a good one Abcisme Over 10 years ago when I still played wheelchair hockey, my team played a demo somewhere. A lot of people came to watch, very interested. Now, one of my teammates was an able bodied boy. (wc hockey allows for able bodied people to compete too) In the middle of the demo, the ball bounced out of bounds. The AB player wheels up to the edge of the field, jumps out of his chair, walks to get the ball, jumps back in and continues playing. This all happened within 10 seconds. The rest of the team was used to it, but apparently (and understandibly) the spectators didn't. Which came to light after the demo... At the sportsbar I was waiting to get a drink, and ths young guy next to me asks me, with a puzzled face and somewhat hesitantly, "So...uhm...are you a real one?" Somehow I knew what he meant right away, so I burst into laughter and told him that I, in fact, wás a real one
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 10:08:37 GMT -5
Great story! LOL. ;D
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Post by E on Apr 15, 2013 18:52:25 GMT -5
At the sportsbar I was waiting to get a drink, and ths young guy next to me asks me, with a puzzled face and somewhat hesitantly, "So...uhm...are you a real one?" Somehow I knew what he meant right away, so I burst into laughter and told him that I, in fact, wás a real one For some reason this reminded me of one of my favorite bar stories. I was out early one evening after work visiting a bartender I knew (who was totally a dev and didn't know!) with my friend, shooting back half-priced tequila. There was only one other guy at the bar, so naturally he comes over to me and offers to buy me a drink, which, of course, I never turn down. And of course, he asked me what "my condition" was. "My condition?" I said. "Isn't it obvious?" He looked at me puzzled as my friend dropped a straw into my tequila and lowered the shot glass so I could drain it. I looked back up to the guy, one eye clenched shut from swallowing the shot, "That's my seventh tequila at 8 PM on a Tuesday. My condition? I'm a fucking alcoholic."
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Post by E on Apr 15, 2013 19:12:31 GMT -5
to the wheelers/dis : have you ever felt that you have been in a depressive state ( maybe due to your disability) and if so how has this state effected the relationships you have been in? In a 7 day week, I contemplate suicide, at least in passing, about five times. It has to be disability related, because my life is otherwise amazing: I own a rapidly growing company, I have great friends, I'm totally hilarious, I bang hot chicks, I'm incredibly good looking, I have an enormous penis, I'm ridiculously humble... so... yeah. It really hasn't affected my relationships, though. I don't think most people notice, and my other qualities (see above) kind of overshadow any outward signs of depression.
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Post by A££Y "Cuddles" Magoo on Apr 19, 2013 4:46:49 GMT -5
At the sportsbar I was waiting to get a drink, and ths young guy next to me asks me, with a puzzled face and somewhat hesitantly, "So...uhm...are you a real one?" Somehow I knew what he meant right away, so I burst into laughter and told him that I, in fact, wás a real one For some reason this reminded me of one of my favorite bar stories. I was out early one evening after work visiting a bartender I knew (who was totally a dev and didn't know!) with my friend, shooting back half-priced tequila. There was only one other guy at the bar, so naturally he comes over to me and offers to buy me a drink, which, of course, I never turn down. And of course, he asked me what "my condition" was. "My condition?" I said. "Isn't it obvious?" He looked at me puzzled as my friend dropped a straw into my tequila and lowered the shot glass so I could drain it. I looked back up to the guy, one eye clenched shut from swallowing the shot, "That's my seventh tequila at 8 PM on a Tuesday. My condition? I'm a f*cking alcoholic." I'm jealous, I can't clench my eye at all...
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Post by Max on Apr 19, 2013 5:19:26 GMT -5
For some reason this reminded me of one of my favorite bar stories. I was out early one evening after work visiting a bartender I knew (who was totally a dev and didn't know!) with my friend, shooting back half-priced tequila. There was only one other guy at the bar, so naturally he comes over to me and offers to buy me a drink, which, of course, I never turn down. And of course, he asked me what "my condition" was. "My condition?" I said. "Isn't it obvious?" He looked at me puzzled as my friend dropped a straw into my tequila and lowered the shot glass so I could drain it. I looked back up to the guy, one eye clenched shut from swallowing the shot, "That's my seventh tequila at 8 PM on a Tuesday. My condition? I'm a f*cking alcoholic." I'm jealous, I can't clench my eye at all... Try some tequila, maybe that does the trick
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