|
Post by vegmama on Jan 12, 2018 20:29:33 GMT -5
I’ll echo what Mets and TC said...just because I’m a dev, does NOT mean I love everything about disability. Far from it! Lol My boyfriend and I definitely hate some things about his disability together! We vent and bitch about it just like any other things that come up in our lives. But I do think there is something different...dare I say better...when it comes to dating a dev. He didn’t know about devs before me and he has said that he was much more comfortable with me from the very beginning than any of his previous (non-dev) girlfriends. (I told him I was a dev right from the start.) Interesting thread though!
|
|
|
Post by lucretia on Jan 12, 2018 20:42:46 GMT -5
I don't think being attracted to a smart person is the same as watching a transfer. The dev response is (in many cases) a visceral response. I'm attracted to smart guys, but it's definitely not in the same league as my dev attractions. I think matisse has a point, and I'm also interested in the answer. Does that mean I'm stupid and close-minded, too? Well, I don't know, are you? It is obviously not the same. One is visual, the other is not. Comparing both things as if the not visual devness is unreal... I'm into much more things that the strictly visual part of a pwd, regarding the disability and further than that. So... If a non-dev asks about devness, gets an answer but insists with such comparison... Just that makes me feel there's not a chance to try and discuss it. No discussion? Interesting.
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 20:44:59 GMT -5
Well, I don't know, are you? It is obviously not the same. One is visual, the other is not. Comparing both things as if the not visual devness is unreal... I'm into much more things that the strictly visual part of a pwd, regarding the disability and further than that. So... If a non-dev asks about devness, gets an answer but insists with such comparison... Just that makes me feel there's not a chance to try and discuss it. No discussion? Interesting. Is it?
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jan 12, 2018 21:01:50 GMT -5
I don't think being attracted to a smart person is the same as watching a transfer. The dev response is (in many cases) a visceral response. I'm attracted to smart guys, but it's definitely not in the same league as my dev attractions. I think matisse has a point, and I'm also interested in the answer. Does that mean I'm stupid and close-minded, too? Well, I don't know, are you? It is obviously not the same. One is visual, the other is not. Comparing both things as if the not visual devness is unreal... I'm into much more things that the strictly visual part of a pwd, regarding the disability and further than that. So... If a non-dev asks about devness, gets an answer but insists with such comparison... Just that makes me feel there's not a chance to try and discuss it. I don't see how asking the question of what the trigger is, somehow gives no chance for discussion. It's the opposite, it's the start of a discussion. My comparison to a transfer was not to inquire about the physical triggers. As I already said, that part (like the hands) I do understand. What I don't understand is the non-physical part of it, which Elbs said did exist. So the autism dev would say to an autistic person, "oh, when you say/do X, boy that really turns me on." What is the non-physical X? I do believe there exist smartness devs, something that goes beyond just liking smart people. I think it even has its own name. But I don't know what triggers that has, either. "Oh baby when I see you work on Diffy Qs, it just makes me wet."
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 21:08:46 GMT -5
The examples you give are just regular traits a person might like in another. An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? I just find it stupid to try to figure out something like that when you are not willing and open to try and understand it, matisse... That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person???
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 21:38:12 GMT -5
shape , I think the part some people are getting stuck on is the “fetish” part. To most, a fetish is strictly a sexual reaction to an object, body part, etc. I think this conversation has been interchanging the words attraction and fetish, and both apply to Devs, but they’re two different things. I can see being attracted to non-physical features, such as smartness and brains that work differently, and devs do have emotional attractions to disability as well, so I’m sure there are people who are attracted to autism in that way. But elbs specifically said autistic fetish. It is a little harder to understand an actual “autistic fetish,” for me because I associate autism more into a cognitive disability category rather than physical, which opens up a lot more issues that devs on pd don’t necessarily want to be connected to people having a sexual fetish to cognitive disabilities. Consent is KEY, and once you cross over into intellectual disabilities, its just something that might raise more questions. We fight enough battles with people thinking we are abusing people with physical disabilities. Obviously elbs can give consent and that line isn’t being crossed, but austism is a VERY wide spectrum and I can see lines could get blurry when discussing “autism fetishes” on a disability fetish forum. At least that’s my take. Ok, so this is a matter of vocabulary. Regarding that, I'd have to say that attraction, fetish and paraphilia are different things. What would apply for us devs, fetish or paraphilia? I'm confused...
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 21:43:43 GMT -5
I wanted to point the difference... But now I am really confused... Attraction, fetish... That was my point... But isn't devness considered as a paraphilia??
And consent is the key... When was it mentioned in this discussion??
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jan 12, 2018 22:13:08 GMT -5
And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? I just find it stupid to try to figure out something like that when you are not willing and open to try and understand it, matisse... That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person??? I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev.
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 22:19:22 GMT -5
That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person??? I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. Ok, answer the question... Or just leave it. I don't get it. The comparison. But seems I'm not the only headstrong here...
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 22:19:54 GMT -5
That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person??? I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. Ok, answer the question... Or just leave it. I don't get it. The comparison. But seems I'm not the only headstrong here...
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 12, 2018 22:25:37 GMT -5
I wanted to point the difference... But now I am really confused... Attraction, fetish... That was my point... But isn't devness considered as a paraphilia?? And consent is the key... When was it mentioned in this discussion?? Well, to me there is a question of consent when discussing sexualizing intellectual disabilities. One of the things that makes devoteeism “ok” in peoples minds is that people with physical disabilities are capable of making their own minds and are consenting adults. I don’t see pwds as being vulnerable to my devness. It wasn’t mentioned in the convo, but I was making a point that being sexually attracted to and fetishizing cognitive disabilities changes things in my mind and I can see why people are mentioning it and possibly uncomfortable with it. Fetish meaning strictly sexual and typically to an object. What object is being fetishized of an autistic person? Attraction means a lot more and ranges from physical appearance, chemistry, emotional, intellectual, interests, spiritual, etc. And yes, devness is considered a paraphilia, and that’s mainly because it’s considered by the psychological community as a sexual-only fetish. Most of us would argue that it is also an attraction and not only a sexual fetish. I'm with you about most of it. Probably all... But still don't get that comparison that made me react.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jan 12, 2018 23:05:01 GMT -5
I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. Ok, answer the question... Or just leave it. I don't get it. The comparison. But seems I'm not the only headstrong here... What is your question?
|
|
|
Post by missparkle on Jan 13, 2018 4:02:45 GMT -5
shape , my friend, don't give up on things so easily! I am truly sorry that right now I don't have more time to indulge into the subject, since I am off for a long drive to another city. Right now, when the conversation took very interesting turn, to the facts the bother me the most, too, and that I am the least confident with! For a start I”ll quote a things I wrote in in the other thread: “When spoken about devotism, both by devs and pdws, it is mainly from the angle of physical side of attraction, that aspect is emphasized. For me, although not denying physical attraction and strong sexual desire, there is much more to it and it is more complex and deeper. To what I am attracted to, is not only and necessarily physical manifestation of particular disability, but includes many other aspects of "disability life" if you'd like.” “I was trying to say that most things that you can find, read about, that are said on forums, here and there, mainly address physical side of attraction. I would love to explore more psychological side of it, because, when it comes to me, it is the part that bothers me more. If it would be only primal, raw, sexual attraction on what I see, I would cope with that easily. But it is not. I am very attracted to the changes that disability makes on "inner being" of the person. Without idealizing, glorifying or making saint of anyone gone trough the "torture", one thing we all have to admit, disability yes, changes person's perception and attitude about life, itself and the world surrounding. And even if we agree that it is ok to be attracted to one's "body scars" is ot ok to be attracted to the "scars on soul"? “ That said, I completely DO get @shade and where she is coming from. To try to put it as understandable I can, I'll try to explain, the way others may understand: For me, the “trigger” doesn't necessarily have to be transfer or anything physical. For example, if wheeler would go to a new place and had his doubts and concerns on accessibility on that yet unknown place, I could find that exciting and it could be “trigger” to me. Therefore, although not knowing much about autism and its various manifestations, I can sort of understand that some “different” kind of thinking could be “trigger” to autism dev. When mona mentioned crazy professor thing, I remembered similar example from my past. I recall very clearly being at University, my professor of Theory of Algorithms, who was great expert in the field and really big name. When he was in front of the blackboard he “ruled the masses”. But it was enough for him only to take few steps out of classroom, down the hallway and he was literally lost. Moving only along the walls, literally pricked to them, avoiding any eye contact or communication with everyone, including other University stuff. Although “not my thing”, not at all, I can understand it could be someone's “trigger”. And yes, I totally agree with @tc123 that psychical side of things raises more questions. And personally, that aspect of my devness bothers me the most. If it was purely physical, it would make things waaaaaay easier for me. So maybe here is a right place to address pdws, like sungod , who say that they look at devness only as an attraction. Don't simplify things and be well aware, that it is not. Take a good thought what you are getting yourself in. It is much more complex, much more deeper and much more “clinical” if you'd like, than simply attraction, fetish or philia. I promise I'll get back to this issue, I am far from finished! But for now, I really have to go!
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 6:42:16 GMT -5
That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person??? I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. Or the first question: And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer??
|
|
|
Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 6:51:44 GMT -5
OK, missparkle, I'll try to give a simple POV to a complicated question. So nobody else find attractive to an extreme the way someone acts? How he answers or reacts because of his personality and not regarding his visual disability? Is only the way he makes things because of his inability to walk or see? Or whatever? Nobody gets turned on by what he says/does? Because he is smart, shy, funny... Regardless of being AB or PWD? Never? Really? Sad... Not interesting lucretia, just sad
|
|