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Post by elbs on Jan 13, 2018 7:29:00 GMT -5
That was your comment. This: An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? This is what I don't get, comparing things that cannot be compared. What is the trigger for you regarding something in someone's character? Could you describe it... Comparing to watching a transfer? Or watching an amputee? Or a blind person??? I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. I'm not an autism dev, and I haven't heard from autism devs exactly what they'd find attractive. But I do know a D/s submissive who finds dominance attractive, regardless of gender or physical appearance, which strikes me as similar. I find that since I know what to look for, I can often spot other autistic people by traits like stimming, certain body poses/mannerisms (for example raptor hands), the sound of their voice (monotone or less animated), avoiding eye contact, and launching into very detailed explanation of things they don't have an obvious reason to be so passionate about. I'm guessing at least some of those would be things that an autism dev likes. On the topic of the ethics of attraction to people with cognitive issues, firstly, I don't think we can really say that a feeling is wrong. Actions can be wrong, I don't believe feelings are. And attraction is a feeling, not an action. Secondly, I have known cognitively disabled people who are married, and even sometimes parents. (Either with a partner with a similar disability or a typical IQ partner.) It's unfair to categorically say that anyone with a cognitive disability wouldn't be able to consent, or would automatically be taken advantage of if they were in a relationship. One of the biggest problems that people with cognitive disabilities face is people treating them like children when they're full grown (something people do to me, too, even though I don't have a cognitive disability). It's important to remember that they're not children, that mental age says nothing about emotional maturity, and judge their capacity on an individual level. Regarding what might be considered 'severe autism' (using quotes because many people on the spectrum don't like severity labels), there are people who might be considered 'severely autistic' who don't even have a cognitive disability. (Eg Sue Rubin, Carly Fleischman, Amanda Baggs, etc) In which case, your only real concern is whether you can communicate effectively with them to know if they're fully consenting.
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Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 7:34:23 GMT -5
elbs, you have a great point here: "Actions can be wrong, I don't believe feelings are. And attraction is a feeling, not an action." About feelings being wrong I don't know, really, but you are talking about consent here, aren't you?
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Post by ada on Jan 13, 2018 8:07:41 GMT -5
But autism is a cognitive disability.
I'm a little afraid of joining this, so I'm just dropping this and silently tiptoeing my way out, don't mind me.
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Post by lucretia on Jan 13, 2018 8:19:08 GMT -5
OK, missparkle, I'll try to give a simple POV to a complicated question. So nobody else find attractive to an extreme the way someone acts? How he answers or reacts because of his personality and not regarding his visual disability? Is only the way he makes things because of his inability to walk or see? Or whatever? Nobody gets turned on by what he says/does? Because he is smart, shy, funny... Regardless of being AB or PWD? Never? Really? Sad... Not interesting lucretia, just sad I really don't think you understand what matisse, @tc123 or I are asking. And you don't have to. Because the question wasn't directed toward you. I don't understand why you are so upset. If you Google the definition of 'attraction' and 'fetish', in English, they are vastly different concepts. We aren't trying to debate whether or not there can be attraction to non-physical characteristics of person. We are curious as to the fetish trigger for autism devs. I could Google it. I have, actually, since this conversation began. And haven't found an answer to the question that doesn't cross the line of consent. In any case, while I am still curious what elbs might have as an example of a fetish trigger for autism, I am more curious why you're so upset? matisse has been a thoughtful, vastly intelligent, open-minded contributor here for over 12 years (Cheetos comments notwithstanding). If he were as you describe him, do you think he would still be here? While I may not always agree with him, I do greatly respect and like him. I've met him on more than one occasion and I find him to be an outstanding human being. While I know he is more than capable of defending himself, you calling him "stupid" and "close-minded" is absolutely uncalled for. Not only is your denigration of his intelligence and your defamation of his character incredibly rude, it actually goes against the guidelines of ProBoards terms of service (section 18), if you want to get technical. So, go at me all you want, it's clear we have triggered something deeply emotional for you. But when you stoop to name calling someone who has demonstrated the very best of what this message board can be, I take serious issue with your approach.
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Post by lucretia on Jan 13, 2018 8:41:30 GMT -5
I am really a bit confused here, so I would like to hear open and honest thoughts of pwd members, but also from devs who are/were in fulfilling relationships with pwds, who were aware of their attraction at that time. I read : "I love devs", "I really like devs", "Thank God devs exist" And, to be honest, I am not sure if I can understand. Would, please, someone, anyone, try to explain? I've dated a few disabled guys, am friends with many, and am married to a disabled man. My husband has dated many devs (a few from here as well as several he met in Europe and the United States). Many men have stated their experience with non-devs has been their partner loved them "in spite of" their disability, or had "looked past" their disability. With dev relationships, the dev embraced their disability as part of the overall attraction. Devs look right at the disability and find it sexy. I can't really say I understand how this feels. I do know how it feels to be deeply loved, yet have my lover be with me "in spite of" my size. There is a ice pick in your heart knowing they wouldn't choose someone like you unless there was something else to seriously compensate for what they don't like. So I can understand why a man would say they love devs, or thank God for devs, or any other version of those expressions. No matter how confident in yourself you may be, no matter how much self love and acceptance you have, finding someone who is attracted to all of you, especially something you have experienced avoidance of, is beyond amazing.
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Post by mona on Jan 13, 2018 8:44:15 GMT -5
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Post by ada on Jan 13, 2018 8:53:58 GMT -5
Cognitive disability isn't the same as learning disability.
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Post by mona on Jan 13, 2018 9:03:52 GMT -5
The examples you give are just regular traits a person might like in another. An autism dev would get an intense sexual reaction to what? What would a trigger be, what is the equivalent to a PD dev seeing a wheeler transfer? And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? I just find it stupid to try to figure out something like that when you are not willing and open to try and understand it, matisse... lucretia, I might have lost the overview but I think shape never wrote that matisse was stupid and close-minded. In the post above she implied that he wasn't open to understand how autistic traits could trigger sexual or romantic desire and persisted with his questions rather for the sake of demonstrating that being turned on by autistic features was "troubling" than actually being interested in broadening his horizon. I had that feeling, too, which is why I agreed to shape's post. But maybe we both misunderstood his questions as rhetorical even though they were honest. If I got you wrong matisse, I apologise. Communication in online forums can be tricky, especially when people with different mother tongues are involved.
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Post by mona on Jan 13, 2018 9:13:30 GMT -5
Cognitive disability isn't the same as learning disability. Oh, it isn't? I find that all very interesting but already spent too much time googling about autism. I really have to get some other stuff done or my kids will be mad when they come back . But I would be thankful if you could enlighten me on this, ada. Or anyone else.
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Post by ada on Jan 13, 2018 10:25:13 GMT -5
mona , while every learning disability is a cognitive disability, not every cognitive disability is a learning one. Cognitive has to do with perception, comprehension, communication, judgment, evaluation, knowledge, among many others. It's a broad category on its own. Even though autism isn't always a learning disability, it's found that every 4 in 10 autistic kids have a learning disability to some degree. It's an interesting subject.
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Post by lucretia on Jan 13, 2018 10:40:39 GMT -5
Cognition is also a fascinating subject of study.
I am especially interested in executive functioning. I stumbled into the subject as a paraeducator and have been interested in it ever since.
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Post by matisse on Jan 13, 2018 10:45:18 GMT -5
I don't understand why you have issues with the question. I would just like an example of a non-physical trigger for an autism dev. Or the first question: And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? Actually I asked my question first. Elbs has answered that she doesn't know. Do you? As for your question about a trigger in a smart/humorous person, I take it you are asking what would trigger a dev of the smart/humorous. I already said I don't know the answer to that question and am curious about that answer as well.
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Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 11:30:26 GMT -5
And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? I just find it stupid to try to figure out something like that when you are not willing and open to try and understand it, matisse... lucretia, I might have lost the overview but I think shape never wrote that matisse was stupid and close-minded. In the post above she implied that he wasn't open to understand how autistic traits could trigger sexual or romantic desire and persisted with his questions rather for the sake of demonstrating that being turned on by autistic features was "troubling" than actually being interested in broadening his horizon. I had that feeling, too, which is why I agreed to shape's post. But maybe we both misunderstood his questions as rhetorical even though they were honest. If I got you wrong matisse, I apologise. Communication in online forums can be tricky, especially when people with different mother tongues are involved. Thank you Mona. That's what I was trying to say, that the question itself was stupid enough to feel he wouldn't want to really think about it, that's why I said I didn't feel there was a chance in debating it, lucretia. And it might have touched a button, yes, though it's not about autism itself. But it's ok.
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Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 11:32:05 GMT -5
Or the first question: And what would be a trigger in a smart humorous person?? Comparing to a transfer?? Actually I asked my question first. Elbs has answered that she doesn't know. Do you? As for your question about a trigger in a smart/humorous person, I take it you are asking what would trigger a dev of the smart/humorous. I already said I don't know the answer to that question and am curious about that answer as well. Ok, when I ask you what would be a trigger FOR YOU, it's obvious you misunderstood it and take it as you did. Now, I didn't really want you to answer that. I wanted you to stop and think about your question. Just think, don't even have to be close to what I think. I knew this was pointless... You are much more headstrong, Matisse. I don't want to waste* more neurons, I'm running out of them
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Post by shape on Jan 13, 2018 12:03:02 GMT -5
OK, missparkle, I'll try to give a simple POV to a complicated question. So nobody else find attractive to an extreme the way someone acts? How he answers or reacts because of his personality and not regarding his visual disability? Is only the way he makes things because of his inability to walk or see? Or whatever? Nobody gets turned on by what he says/does? Because he is smart, shy, funny... Regardless of being AB or PWD? Never? Really? Sad... Not interesting lucretia, just sad I really don't think you understand what matisse, @tc123 or I are asking. And you don't have to. Because the question wasn't directed toward you. I don't understand why you are so upset. If you Google the definition of 'attraction' and 'fetish', in English, they are vastly different concepts. We aren't trying to debate whether or not there can be attraction to non-physical characteristics of person. We are curious as to the fetish trigger for autism devs. I could Google it. I have, actually, since this conversation began. And haven't found an answer to the question that doesn't cross the line of consent. In any case, while I am still curious what elbs might have as an example of a fetish trigger for autism, I am more curious why you're so upset? matisse has been a thoughtful, vastly intelligent, open-minded contributor here for over 12 years (Cheetos comments notwithstanding). If he were as you describe him, do you think he would still be here? While I may not always agree with him, I do greatly respect and like him. I've met him on more than one occasion and I find him to be an outstanding human being. While I know he is more than capable of defending himself, you calling him "stupid" and "close-minded" is absolutely uncalled for. Not only is your denigration of his intelligence and your defamation of his character incredibly rude, it actually goes against the guidelines of ProBoards terms of service (section 18), if you want to get technical. So, go at me all you want, it's clear we have triggered something deeply emotional for you. But when you stoop to name calling someone who has demonstrated the very best of what this message board can be, I take serious issue with your approach. Ok, so have I broken the rules just by saying how stupid a question seemed to me??? Take all you want, I know you have blocked me. But if I am such a problem, when you are all targeting other issue, ban me if you feel better. I think I have demonstrated how kind I usually am. But I take an issue with your reaction here. And I honestly don't think I would mind being banned because I was only trying to point something that others got like me.
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