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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 20:26:18 GMT -5
The sad reality is that despite how charming one is, or smart, creative, rich, funny, inventive or even traditionally attractive - if they're disabled and especially enough that a caregiver is needed, their dating pool is REALLY shallow. It just is. The actual caregiver is just a drop in the ocean to most people. To those of us in the know, there are nearly endless degrees of disability (think para vs. quad) but to the general public those nuances are not there. There's crippled but fuckable, too crippled to fuck but is fun to hang out with, and just plain ol' NOPE.Call me naive, but I really don’t believe this. I think most people, probably a vast majority, have never even thought about dating someone who is disabled. To say that all of these people would immediately disregard someone simply because of a serious disability, who they would otherwise be really attracted to, seems to be really underestimating social progress of the general reputation of disability. I’m not saying it’s a non-factor, but I’m saying most AB people, when confronted with it in a practical scenario, wouldn’t label it as a disqualifier. It’s all perception. As for me, I tend to think that as a majority it’s a disqualifier. That’s not saying that some are open to it as they obviously are, but it’s also fair to say that a majority doesn’t.
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Post by someonerandom on Mar 26, 2018 20:31:21 GMT -5
The sad reality is that despite how charming one is, or smart, creative, rich, funny, inventive or even traditionally attractive - if they're disabled and especially enough that a caregiver is needed, their dating pool is REALLY shallow. It just is. The actual caregiver is just a drop in the ocean to most people. To those of us in the know, there are nearly endless degrees of disability (think para vs. quad) but to the general public those nuances are not there. There's crippled but fuckable, too crippled to fuck but is fun to hang out with, and just plain ol' NOPE.Call me naive, but I really don’t believe this. I think most people, probably a vast majority, have never even thought about dating someone who is disabled. To say that all of these people would immediately disregard someone simply because of a serious disability, who they would otherwise be really attracted to, seems to be really underestimating social progress of the general reputation of disability. I’m not saying it’s a non-factor, but I’m saying most AB people, when confronted with it in a practical scenario, wouldn’t label it as a disqualifier. Dude the social progress of the general reputation of disability is shit. On Tinder when I get one of the ones that actually talk to me, I usually get ghosted and sometimes unmatched the second I reveal my disability (in a positive way). When I had a picture with the wheelchair I got way less matches. It's the same thing on grinder. In the BDSM world people almost always assume I'm a sub, despite the fact that I'm dominant as fuck and carry myself as such. And I'm one of the so-called "cool" sporty paras (not a real cripple), not somebody with a big-ass powerchair. They might SAY it's not a disqualifier, but in reality a lot of people are cowardly and don't even want to take that risk because they're scared.
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Post by Mets on Mar 26, 2018 22:44:58 GMT -5
I think I should clarify what I meant by confronted with it. I specifically was thinking scenarios where there is already some sort of relationship, not two total strangers as is the case with something like Tinder/Grindr/Blind Date/Meet in a Bar.
I’m referring to things like coworkers, classmates, friends, neighbors, etc. When people don’t know you, the disability is the clear subject of your identity, but as things unfold, it becomes less so. It is ALWAYS a large part of your identity, but if you have the other factors they find attractive, I do not think it’s a disqualifier for most.
For example, look at those who become disabled while in a relationship. Obviously it is different, and the guilt/commitment factor is there, but few would immediately/unhesitatingly rule out a future, which would be the case if they truly felt the disability itself was a clear disqualifier.
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Post by Corey on Mar 26, 2018 22:56:42 GMT -5
I think the truth is somewhere between what metsfan says and what mrniceguy says
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Post by Mets on Mar 26, 2018 23:21:24 GMT -5
I think the truth is somewhere between what metsfan says and what mrniceguy says I’m fully content with being overly optimistic
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Post by Green on Mar 26, 2018 23:22:08 GMT -5
This was EXACTLY my point. This is the world we live in and Paradevo is not reality. That being said, of course it's not always a deal breaker but it's definitely not a panty dropper either. I still don't get that vibe from you. I agree that we have fewer pickings, and most people do prefer normal - that's what makes something normal. But what I see in you is frustration that it is impossible to be normal, that you don't even have the option to be normal. If your point is just that the problem is the other person, then I don't see why you want to emphasize the issues other people have with disability. "Crippled but fuckable" seems to really emphasize what's wrong with yourself and how people see that. Sure, things aren't easy for us, but the right attitude about the difficulties we have helps a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 7:12:09 GMT -5
Sure, things aren't easy for us, but the right attitude about the difficulties we have helps a lot. This is also a perception thing. What this thread has shown so far is everything is perception. Does the right attitude actually change anything physically, or does it just make life easier to cope with? You can be happy or you can be sad but the universe is still doing what it does. What I’m gathering is you are saying that to make the best out of any situation you are in is always the way to go. I can speak from experience when I can say my situation I’ve been in for about three years now isn’t as easy as thinking positive and being proactive. There’s obstacles in my way that prevent “normal” life from happening and that gets very overwhelming. To the same token, how you react to anything in life will be affected by what your perception is, so I do think it’s beneficial and healthy to have a positive mindset. But there’s also merit in facing reality even when it’s a negative reality.
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Post by mona on Mar 28, 2018 11:15:46 GMT -5
I think Green has written somewhere that he has come to the conclusion that nothing in his life works like it does for average people. So flirting and dating don't, either. The situation where he takes a girl to his place after meeting her in a smokey bar (do those places still exist in the US?) and he has wild spontaneous sex with her on his kitchen table will never happen (this is not happening for a great many AB guys either). So he has to look for other ways. He has written about these ways and he seems pragmatic and courageous to me. Dating sucks. Especially for pwds. But blaming the caregivers seems a little too easy, don't you think? Edit: The most effective pussy blocker I can think of is a kid, btw. Other people's kids make for great birth control, too. But was anyone blaming their caregivers? I wasn't saying that having the need for one at home was to blame for my dry spell, I was just stating the simple fact that it's not conventional and can be off-putting to those with no knowledge of the PWD world. The only thing that's hindering is the other person's interest in doing things "normally". This was EXACTLY my point. This is the world we live in and Paradevo is not reality. That being said, of course it's not always a deal breaker but it's definitely not a panty dropper either. Crude, I know. The sad reality is that despite how charming one is, or smart, creative, rich, funny, inventive or even traditionally attractive - if they're disabled and especially enough that a caregiver is needed, their dating pool is REALLY shallow. It just is. The actual caregiver is just a drop in the ocean to most people. To those of us in the know, there are nearly endless degrees of disability (think para vs. quad) but to the general public those nuances are not there. There's crippled but fuckable, too crippled to fuck but is fun to hang out with, and just plain ol' NOPE. Okay, there might be a few more degrees in there but I think you get what I'm trying to say. It's my job to move into that first category but there are many people that absolutely can't be swayed. I don't take those people home. Sorry that I'm only replying now. I had a horrible day yesterday and wasn't able to participate here. You already got interesting answers. Nevertheless I will try to write down what's crossing my mind. So yes, you're right, the pool is more limited to you than it would be to your imaginary AB twin brother. And I agree when you're saying that as soon as someone is a little outside the "norm" they get sorted out of the pool. I hear that from my AB friends, too. They don't find a match because they're too poor, too fat, too unemployed, too bold, too old, too divorced ... I admit that pwds have very strong arguments on their side why they fall by the rasters (and it's not that they're complaining for no reason like my lazy cheeto combo) and I also agree that the majority of ABs are skeptical when it comes to dating guys in chairs. But to me, it seems that this online dating stuff is toxic. It makes people believe finding a partner were another project that could be perfectly managed with the right tool and some effort. You just have to optimize yourself and your performance. And when you fail, it's because you're not good enough. But to me, finding a partner has a lot to do with fate and chance. I mean, what about this good old metaphor of a naked flying boy with a bunch of arrows in his backpack who just hits some folks into their hearts and, whether they want or not, they're in love. No algorithms, no categorisations, the pure choice by a crazy guy named Amor makes them go wild for each other. Or the story of a love potion that was drunk accidentally by the wrong person and creates a big mess because the potion just works no matter what its consumer wishes for? I know, it might sound like I'm playing down the real difficulties you guys encounter and try to soothe the pain with some old wives' tales. But I am certain these stories bear a truth that we like to forget: Love is a magical and illogical concept. It doesn't matter how ugly and undatable - according to objective criteria - you might be. You can still find someone who's foolish enough to love you with all your imperfections. On the other hand, ticking off all criteria isn't a guarantee for happiness. So if you don't find that somebody, there might not be an understandable reason behind. It's not because of your unsexy caregiver or your disabled body or people's close-mindness. The only reason for your Herzschmerz is that this stupid, damn, childish Amor fools around with his arrows. But the good news are: He also makes some hits. If he does, you'll better be prepared.
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Mar 31, 2018 23:12:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but didn't want to start a new thread.
I find washing a partner's hair and helping him shave is very, very sensuous. For those who have caretakers-do you/would you find that sensuous?
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Post by Mets on Mar 31, 2018 23:17:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but didn't want to start a new thread.
I find washing a partner's hair and helping him shave is very, very sensuous. For those who have caretakers-do you/would you find that sensuous? I definitely do not. I try very hard to disconnect for the physical touch of most interactions, as more often it’s unpleasant than comforting. It also depends a lot on your relationship with the person, and 90% of those who’ve helped me weren’t people I would find attractive, and the other 10% I never developed crushes or anything like that. There was one good looking nurse who always offered to lotion my hands (she was big into that kinda stuff), which felt pretty nice, but I still wouldn’t describe it as sensuous.
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Mar 31, 2018 23:55:27 GMT -5
Thanks Mets. As a DEV with no PWD experiences-it is helpful to know how you feel. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by TotalBias on Apr 1, 2018 5:25:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but didn't want to start a new thread.
I find washing a partner's hair and helping him shave is very, very sensuous. For those who have caretakers-do you/would you find that sensuous? My bf who was a PWD found it sensuous when I did it, but not when his other caregivers/Mom washed his hair. He wasn’t sexually attracted to his caregivers though.
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Post by darthoso on Apr 1, 2018 8:03:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but didn't want to start a new thread.
I find washing a partner's hair and helping him shave is very, very sensuous. For those who have caretakers-do you/would you find that sensuous? Sensuous, no. Relaxing, yes. It depends on the aide though and how much I trust them with the shower routine. I've got hyper sensitive skin so hot showers are basically a massage. There were a few times in college where due to stress/exhaustion I almost fell asleep in the shower, but again only if it's an aide that I don't need to pay attention with.
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Post by lucretia on Apr 1, 2018 9:40:18 GMT -5
In relationships it can be a very intimate and sensual experience.
In any other setting it's just what it is.
I've been on the other end of the equation both as a caregiver and as a romantic partner and the difference is so vast it's in a completely different universe.
Most of the guys I washed/shaved/otherwise attended to just tuned out. If they could sleep through it, they would.
Most of the women I worked with we're totally different. I've had great conversations while washing hair, dressing, dealing with the agony of Ted's...lol
But yeah, I would say as a paid caregiver there was nothing sensual about any of it.
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Apr 1, 2018 10:04:14 GMT -5
I think I need to clarify-since you have it done for you in a caregiving way-could you still see it as a sensual act with a partner? That's more of what I was asking.
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