Is "nursing"/being a carer a important part of being a dev?

[sweetequine]

You are definitely not an exception!! Caregiving does not define or contribute to my dev-ness at all. Honestly I prefer a fairly independent para, however I'm dating a wonderful lower quad who does need assistance with most ADLs/self care. Once he is up in the wheelchair he's pretty independent, and doesn't need anyone around 24/7.
The "helplessness" you refer to is not a turn on for me, but it may be for another dev.
Just like everyone, I think every dev is unique in her attractions. Some devs may prefer a more dependent partner, some avoid that situation. However I have to wonder if a lot of devs have more nurturing personalities or characteristics than non-devs. I could be completely wrong, but I sometimes feel that way myself. Every dev is different, and none of us should compare ourselves to other devs.

I'm glad you found PD LaMara!

[savannahgirl]

Love the guys who are independent but need help sometimes. I wouldn't mind helping where needed but it sure is a turn on watching them do for themselves. I love a guy who is independent but sometimes needs help. Really not that different from AB guys. We all need help sometimes, AB or not.

[secrets9]

savannahgirl sums up my feelings perfectly

[Justagirl]

Jan 14, 2015 18:46:15 GMT -5 tc123 said:

I do think that there are devs that compare situations. And I also think it's normal to do so to an extent. But, I think it's a dangerous thing to do, so thought I'd bring it out in the "open" to be discussed.  Less assumptions, and more actual conversation amongst us. 

I also think that there are devs who feel that there is sometimes a line drawn between us as devs. I can see it myself sometimes.  
I just think it's interesting.  Where else in the world can this stuff be discussed?? 

This may need it's own thread, but I'm interested to know more about how you see this line. It is interesting, and I think it could be a good discussion.

[Clair deLune]

I would like to cast my vote firmly in the "no, helping is not part of my devness" camp.

Of course I would help if necessary, or even just if desired, or to make things easier or faster. The fact that a guy can't do certain things and might ask me to help definitely sets off my dev senses. But fulfilling a caretaker role is something different and not associated with my dev feelings.

My first experience with caretaking was for a family member and was when I was quite young, nine years old. It was easy from day-to-day and task-to-task but over time it was exhausting and overwhelming. And not rewarding in the least. I wouldn't want to do that to a romantic relationship.

The concept of us devs comparing each other is an interesting one. I never did it before, but I certainly have been since I joined here. For example, I too have found myself questioning my dev-ness. After all, if I was a "real" dev, I wouldn't have married an AB guy, would I? Even though I've known I was a dev since before I knew what a dev was, I still caught myself questioning. Not wanting to be someone's carer or nurse wouldn't have made me think twice, though, since I don't really think of that in a "dev-y" way.

[Pigeon]

To answer the carer piece... its not really part of the attraction. Like, I enjoy taking care of the people who I care about, but its not really a sexual thing. It's a "You are an important person in my life and so Im going to do for you" thing. I do it for my siblings, my parents, my friends, people to whom Im not at all sexually attracted.
I think part of what have defined my "dev moments" have been independent guys. I think in a relationship you compromise and take care of each other (Lucretia, among others, has said it way more eloquently than I could). But, in all fairness, Im not sure Im in a place where I want that kind of relationship.

...On the topic of feeling like you have to be the "right" kind of Dev, I've felt that pressure and those lines. I think part of it is the fact that this is sexuality, and human sexuality is confusing. I think part of it is that a lot of us have hid our feelings for so long, and that in any given room - virtual or physical - or devs, there are going to be as any experiences of dev-ness as there are devs. In my philosophical moments, I tell myself that PD is a self-selecting group, and that just because my devness and my sexuality and all those other facets of human relationships are different from other people's doesn't make them any less real or any less important. And then there are moments when I'm waiting for some all mighty power - quite possibly the mods in some kind of transformer or power-ranger type mechanical suit that stands 10 feet tall - to come inform me that I'm not a real dev and I don't belong.

[LaMara]

Thank you all, things came out to be much different from what I had expected.

Clair deLune I also had to act as a caretaker for a family member when I was way too young for the task (7 or 8) and I have awful memories about it, of suffocating responsibilities and anxiety. Probably that didn't help making me much of a "nursing" type! I'm for the "if you can do it yourself, move your ass and do it!" kind of approach... I work with young children and apply the same concept to them.

Pigeon same here! When I first posted I somehow expected someone to tell me: nope, this is a place for sci devs, go elsewhere. So glad it didn't happen (and that there were no transformers or giant killer robots)

[Justagirl]

Jan 14, 2015 16:50:39 GMT -5 lucretia said:

I don't think of devness as a continuum. I don't think you can be a little bit dev any more than you can be a little bit pregnant. We all experience it differently because we are all different beings. No two devs will ever have exactly the same dev response.

I agree, when you are a dev it IS part of you, there is no way around it. We all share the same thing. However how big of a part is variable. Just like being pregnant....when someone is 9 months pregnant it effects many parts of them, down to using the bathroom. In contrast, when first pregnant, some women don't even realize it, or the pregnancy is a very small part of them- literally. And everyone experiences pregnancy different, each pregnancy can even vary drastically. Another parallel.... it changes over time. So sometimes it IS a bigger part of us and sometimes it is not. I've never thought about comparing being a dev to being pregnant, and while it may not have been your intention Lucretia, it was kind of fun to do. LOL.  

[Emma]

Jan 14, 2015 14:54:19 GMT -5 tc123 said:

Slighly off topic, not to derail… But, this has been on my mind a lot lately:
One thing I have noticed in my time here is a lot devs compare themselves to the others.
Those in AB relationships vs. those in PWD relationships…
Those who like to be the carer vs those who don't. ETC. 

Is it really a "higher" status to be any of these things? Is being "more of a dev" really medal worthy? Cuz, I don't think so.
It's confusing to me sometimes. Like we're competing for this medal, that I really don't feel there is a point to, or even really healthy. I just feel like we should do what feels right, and what works for us.
Are there devs who do feel that there is a "status" to be achieved in devness? Or is it just me that notices this?  Just curious… Is there really a hierarchy?

I'm a little late to the party but this is an AMAZING thread. I'm curious TC if you could elaborate a bit on what you said about the status a dev can perceive. Are you talking about devs with AB guys vs those with disabled guys? Sorry to be so literal but sometimes I miss subtly stuff like thi.

Jan 14, 2015 14:54:19 GMT -5 tc123 said:

I do think that there are devs that compare situations. And I also think it's normal to do so to an extent. But, I think it's a dangerous thing to do, so thought I'd bring it out in the "open" to be discussed. Less assumptions, and more actual conversation amongst us.

I also think that there are devs who feel that there is sometimes a line drawn between us as devs. I can see it myself sometimes.
I just think it's interesting. Where else in the world can this stuff be discussed??

I'm also curious why you think its dangerous to compare situations. I love talking with other devs about their experiences, dating life, partners likes and dislikes and I guess that is comparing but in the end it all about that need to belong LaMara mentioned on page 1. Everyone here knows that I'm a different type of dev than many of the women here. I have really enjoyed seeing how as an exclusively amputee dev I am similar and different to the other type of devs here.

[queenjane]

I definitely can relate to this, tc123, because not only are we all different in our devness but we're also all at different stages and places in our lives here. I for one do not have a DA boyfriend or husband whom I can post about in order to relate my own personal experience as a dev, and at times I feel like the odd man out because of it. That feels like a shitty thing to say and I AM happy for all of you devs happily settled with disabled guys, I wouldn't just say that! But it's true, there feels like a line there. No judgement intended, it a simple matter of fact that I am not able to relate experience-wise in the same way others of us are.

[lucretia]

Jan 15, 2015 21:41:12 GMT -5 @devvydowner said:

I think my sweet friend tc123 wrote that last post just for me. <3

Because I am one of those devs who feels "less than" because I'm not in a PWD relationship.

Additionally, I have confided to TC on a couple occasions that I avoid Devs Only at times, because I feel so few of the threads pertain to me. It may be selective perception, because I'm already sensitive about the subject, but I feel like every time I click "Devs Only," it's just thread after thread of "What do you like to do with your PWD?" and "How did you meet your DA SO?" and "What are your favorite ways to act out all your devviest fantasies with your paralyzed boyfriend, who is also a small animal veterinarian/former male model/Cleveland's 2013 Citizen of the Year for his humanitarian work with underprivileged youth?"

Okay, so maybe that last one never happened. I've been accused once or twice of having an overactive imagination.

Anyway, my point is, I'm a dev who came out late in life (see: intense religious shame), after I was already married to an amazing AB guy. And sometimes I don't feel I fit in, or that I'm not a "varsity" dev. For example, I've seen the term "fantasy dev" be employed less-than-flatteringly over the years around here, and it definitely seems like the majority of vocal devs in here are in relationships with the wheelers of their dreams. (This is interesting, because I have a friend who was active on the board about 5 years ago, and she says the makeup of the board was totally different then. Most women were in AB relationships, and relatively few had even come out to their SOs. I wonder if I would've felt the same way I do now if I'd been around then...)

Anyway, this is a Ramble-Palooza, but I don't have time or brain-power to write a shorter post at the moment. So I'll just wrap up by saying that, if any of you have felt that way, just know someone else out there does, too.

ETA: PLEASE don't anyone take this post as a suggestion that devs in PWD relationships shouldn't share their experiences in "Devs Only." I recognize that this space is one of the only places in the world where many of you can come to have your relationships celebrated. And that is beautiful.

I was one of those fantasy devs way back in the day. I've been here for years and years and you're right. Most devs then weren't in relationships with PWD.

So the board changes. Who knows what it will be like I'm another 10 years?

In the meantime, nothing says you can't start your own threads. Most of us just love to dish about all things dev. It doesn't have to be about relationships.

[vegmama]

For the record, my thread about Devy Daydreams may have been me sharing MY daydream about my PWD relationship, but when I asked for other devs to share, I in no way put a disclaimer that it could only be daydreams/fantasies from devs in relationships with PWD's.

When I first joined, I was in an AB marriage. Now, I'm in a relationship with a PWD. Do I feel things are cliquey? Yep. But I don't feel it's because of devs either being in AB or PWD relationships. That's just me though.

Sure, if you choose to focus on the PWD relationship threads it can seem like Devs Only is just for that type of dev. But I just looked at the latest threads and feel like it's a good mix of things any dev could participate in.

I personally don't want anyone to feel left out or like they don't belong. We unfortunately deal with that so much as devs anyway, it sucks that anyone should have to feel it here too.

[vegmama]

@devvydowner - Good good...because I would feel awful if I made anyone feel excluded! 

[kivic]

I think part of the problem is that it's mostly women in PWD relationships that actually talk about their relationships. Would you like me to gush about my AB husband and receive a welcomed response? Let's celebrate my non-wheeler husband on a site for women who are attracted to PWDs, I just don't think there would be a warm reception. How is it that most of the women who are in AB relationships don't talk about their relationships as much as the devs who are in PWD relationships? Are we not all devs, with the same basic dev desires? How does your AB husband feed your devness? How do you incorporate your spouse/boyfriend into your devness?

I certainly felt the divide when I joined 1-1/2 years ago. I still do, but what I keep reminding myself of is that I'm not here to change my relationship from AB to DA, I'm here for my own self and my own acceptance of the choices I've made in my life and how my devness affects my AB relationship because it does good and bad.

Also as devs, we have felt that isolation of being different and perhaps not understood (by ourselves and by others), so it's disappointing knowing that some devs also feel isolated here on a board for devs. What I'd like to hear more about are THE REALITIES of being with and living with a PWD, not just all the wine and roses and how glorious it all is because "I'm a dev in a PWD relationship." I don't know about anyone else, but I'm no fool, there are sacrifices that must be made at times in a PWD relationship, yet no one really talks about those aspects of a PWD relationship.  I think it is also important to talk about the REALITIES of being a dev in an AB relationship as well.  Being a dev has some level of burden.  Personally, I feel as devs, we all make sacrifices.

What's most important to me is that I have been able to find meaningful friendships with devs who are in PWD relationships, AB relationships and devs who are committed to living their life in a PWD relationship and finding the right guy for them.

I do enjoy hearing of successful dev-PWD relationships, I think great things can come from them, but I also feel it's encouraging to hear of ANY successful relationship between dev and partner.

[Emma]

Jan 15, 2015 23:25:24 GMT -5 tc123 said:

So, when I found this place, I was so excited to get to share this excitement with others. Celebrate it with others! But, as a new member, I learned very quickly when I joined that posting about my "amazing wheeler husband" was not as appreciated as I thought, and that not everyone will join in my celebration. I felt a very instant disconnect between the devs in pwd relationships and the devs with ab relationships. It was never said outloud, but I felt it very early on. This was before I actually talked to devs directly.

Yes! I'm not as skilled with words as some of you and these days have my attention pulled away from most things dev so my responses and private thoughts on all this are stunted. I'm with you TC about the celebration. I do feel like I missed out on that with my friends and family. It kinda sorta happens here but only in little bits here and there.


Thank you for the clarification TC and I still stand by this thread as being one of the best in months, maybe years.