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Post by Emma on Jan 16, 2015 1:11:46 GMT -5
What I'd like to hear more about are THE REALITIES of being with and living with a PWD, not just all the wine and roses and how glorious it all is because "I'm a dev in a PWD relationship." I don't know about anyone else, but I'm no fool, there are sacrifices that must be made at times in a PWD relationship, yet no one really talks about those aspects of a PWD relationship. I think it is also important to talk about the REALITIES of being a dev in an AB relationship as well. Being a dev has some level of burden. Personally, I feel as devs, we all make sacrifices. I think this is a great idea for a new thread. |
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Post by devogirl on Jan 16, 2015 2:59:29 GMT -5
Is it really a "higher" status to be any of these things? Is being "more of a dev" really medal worthy? Cuz, I don't think so. It's confusing to me sometimes. Like we're competing for this medal, that I really don't feel there is a point to, or even really healthy. I am glad you brought this up, because I do see it happen from time to time. Not to call anyone out, because I don't think anyone here is intentionally setting themselves up as higher status. Just the opposite, I think it comes from a feeling of insecurity: "Am I too different?" "Am I enough of a dev to fit in here?" If you are feeling inadequate, I think this is a good reminder to try to let it go. We all have different life experiences, and it's not a competition. |
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Post by LaMara on Jan 16, 2015 6:01:51 GMT -5
Is it really a "higher" status to be any of these things? Is being "more of a dev" really medal worthy? Cuz, I don't think so. It's confusing to me sometimes. Like we're competing for this medal, that I really don't feel there is a point to, or even really healthy. I am glad you brought this up, because I do see it happen from time to time. Not to call anyone out, because I don't think anyone here is intentionally setting themselves up as higher status. Just the opposite, I think it comes from a feeling of insecurity: "Am I too different?" "Am I enough of a dev to fit in here?" If you are feeling inadequate, I think this is a good reminder to try to let it go. We all have different life experiences, and it's not a competition. I asked myself those same questions a few times since joining, but I don't blame anyone for my own insecurity, that's just a part of me that, no matter what, creeps in every aspect of my life. So yes, I found this fantastic place and loved it from the first day, but my insecurity kept whispering at my ear: they're mostly sci devs and you're an amp dev, they're mostly in a relationship and you are not, and so on. Sometimes it made me feel out of place. But what I mean is, it is NOT because of how PD works in itself, but because of my OWN sense of inadequacy. Which is something I have to deal with, and doesn't depend on anyone else but me. So personally I never felt like people here were trying to impose themselves as superior or "better devs", actually everybody seems to be well above the internet average when it comes to empathy and supporting each other  |
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Post by vegmama on Jan 16, 2015 13:24:23 GMT -5
I am glad you brought this up, because I do see it happen from time to time. Not to call anyone out, because I don't think anyone here is intentionally setting themselves up as higher status. Just the opposite, I think it comes from a feeling of insecurity: "Am I too different?" "Am I enough of a dev to fit in here?" If you are feeling inadequate, I think this is a good reminder to try to let it go. We all have different life experiences, and it's not a competition. I asked myself those same questions a few times since joining, but I don't blame anyone for my own insecurity, that's just a part of me that, no matter what, creeps in every aspect of my life. So yes, I found this fantastic place and loved it from the first day, but my insecurity kept whispering at my ear: they're mostly sci devs and you're an amp dev, they're mostly in a relationship and you are not, and so on. Sometimes it made me feel out of place. But what I mean is, it is NOT because of how PD works in itself, but because of my OWN sense of inadequacy. Which is something I have to deal with, and doesn't depend on anyone else but me. So personally I never felt like people here were trying to impose themselves as superior or "better devs", actually everybody seems to be well above the internet average when it comes to empathy and supporting each other Yes! I very much agree with you guys! I think that's why it seems to be an undertone as tc123 said...but not a blatant thing. Because I really don't think it's intentional...at least it doesn't seem to be most of the time. I think it comes from each of our OWN insecurities. And I get that, believe me - I have PLENTY of my own! Because look what happens when it's brought up...everyone genuinely seems accepting and supportive of each other and says they never mean to make other devs feel that way. (Maybe there are some that think it and aren't saying it...or carry that tone in their posts, but I really feel that's not the majority of us.) I guess the question is, how do we fix it? Honestly, I don't think it really can be fixed. Because I'm sure we would all love to get rid of our insecurities...but if we can't do it ourselves, how do we think others will? I think the best we can do is foster an environment of acceptance and be mindful of each other. |
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Post by vegmama on Jan 16, 2015 13:52:05 GMT -5
Just another thought...sorry! lol kivic - why NOT share the good things about your AB marriage? It's your dev experience....go for it! And if you are curious about the struggles of a PWD relationship...throw it out there and ask. If anybody feels something is lacking on the boards...why not start the thread yourself? I know it may be nerve wracking if you are feeling insecure or in the minority. But chances are there are other devs that are feeling the same and would appreciate it. People might respond, they might not. You could start a really great discussion though! |
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Post by kivic on Jan 16, 2015 17:17:19 GMT -5
vegmama, I have and I do (you can check my "recent threads" list to find out). It just seems that many devs in AB relationships don't, be it that they don't feel comfortable enough sharing it here or don't feel that they can. Either way, I think it's important to share what being a dev is to you, and being in an AB relationship or DA relationship, we are all devs.
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Post by Kid A on Jan 16, 2015 19:01:07 GMT -5
Also as devs, we have felt that isolation of being different and perhaps not understood (by ourselves and by others), so it's disappointing knowing that some devs also feel isolated here on a board for devs. What I'd like to hear more about are THE REALITIES of being with and living with a PWD, not just all the wine and roses and how glorious it all is because "I'm a dev in a PWD relationship." I don't know about anyone else, but I'm no fool, there are sacrifices that must be made at times in a PWD relationship, yet no one really talks about those aspects of a PWD relationship. I think it is also important to talk about the REALITIES of being a dev in an AB relationship as well. Being a dev has some level of burden. Personally, I feel as devs, we all make sacrifices. What's most important to me is that I have been able to find meaningful friendships with devs who are in PWD relationships, AB relationships and devs who are committed to living their life in a PWD relationship and finding the right guy for them. I do enjoy hearing of successful dev-PWD relationships, I think great things can come from them, but I also feel it's encouraging to hear of ANY successful relationship between dev and partner. While I agree, I have to bring up a couple of things with regard to what you said. Firstly, I do think that people talk about the realities of being in relationships with a PWD. I can think of a number of posts that have not just casually mentioned, but quite candidly talked about the sacrifices that have been made in the name of dev/dis relationships. Also, as someone who did the "big move" twice, I wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to talk about how my prior relationship crumbled, especially because it had been so public here on PD. Not only that, but I didn't feel comfortable talking about a lot of things because my ex is still an active member of this board and my current relationship is also with a member of this board, so it's complicated and not the easiest topic to broach, even when it comes to complications around my current relationship (not just the cross-over between the two). That said, I've definitely peppered in some details here and there, but nothing too personal, for the above-mentioned reasons. I have had a few devs contact me about some things and I am more than happy to chat through PM or Skype with anyone who has questions. However, even in DO, I don't feel comfortable regaling everyone with a lot of the story of what happened between myself and my ex. That's just a for-instance and I think if I were in a relationship with an AB, I would be curious to hear about why relationships with dis guys don't work out and how it might be potentially complicated by issues around disability. However, as for the day-to-day stuff, I personally have mentioned some things here and there, but to be honest, it isn't that much different than being in a relationship with anyone else. The nursing/carer issue does hit very close to home for me, which is why I've contributed to this conversation (and the one I deleted in the thread that was part of the General discussion). I will say this, and I think it gets to some of the things you mentioned: the reason I deleted that comment in the prior thread did have a bit to do with image. I think there is some pressure that we all feel in social media fora, to give people the highlight reel. Also, I felt I was bitching about things, by reference, that really did not reflect how I felt when I went back and read what I wrote. ::shrug:: Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, at least in my very humble and probably misguided opinion, there is a bit of pressure on both sides of the equation: people in relationships with AB's may feel reluctant to share details about their relationships and people in relationships with PWD, especially who are also members of this site, may feel reluctant to over-share, especially when it comes to topics of conflict or negative aspects of the relationship. I'm not sure if that helps or clarifies anything, but I guess I have a little guilt around having a tendency to mostly share the highlights, which I delight in and want to share - though I'm still evaluating whether or not that is true or if it's just that I feel this way when putting all of this under a microscope (OK, now I'm rambling). I know none of this was personally pointed at me, but like a lot of you, I'm pretty insecure about certain things and I certainly don't want to upset anyone. Just know that I don't want to misrepresent myself or my relationships, so if there is anything that seems unclear and anyone is curious, please do not hesitate to ask, on or off the board.  |
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Post by lucretia on Jan 16, 2015 19:36:52 GMT -5
Also as devs, we have felt that isolation of being different and perhaps not understood (by ourselves and by others), so it's disappointing knowing that some devs also feel isolated here on a board for devs. What I'd like to hear more about are THE REALITIES of being with and living with a PWD, not just all the wine and roses and how glorious it all is because "I'm a dev in a PWD relationship." I don't know about anyone else, but I'm no fool, there are sacrifices that must be made at times in a PWD relationship, yet no one really talks about those aspects of a PWD relationship. I think it is also important to talk about the REALITIES of being a dev in an AB relationship as well. Being a dev has some level of burden. Personally, I feel as devs, we all make sacrifices. What's most important to me is that I have been able to find meaningful friendships with devs who are in PWD relationships, AB relationships and devs who are committed to living their life in a PWD relationship and finding the right guy for them. I do enjoy hearing of successful dev-PWD relationships, I think great things can come from them, but I also feel it's encouraging to hear of ANY successful relationship between dev and partner. While I agree, I have to bring up a couple of things with regard to what you said. Firstly, I do think that people talk about the realities of being in relationships with a PWD. I can think of a number of posts that have not just casually mentioned, but quite candidly talked about the sacrifices that have been made in the name of dev/dis relationships. Also, as someone who did the "big move" twice, I wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to talk about how my prior relationship crumbled, especially because it had been so public here on PD. Not only that, but I didn't feel comfortable talking about a lot of things because my ex is still an active member of this board and my current relationship is also with a member of this board, so it's complicated and not the easiest topic to broach, even when it comes to complications around my current relationship (not just the cross-over between the two). That said, I've definitely peppered in some details here and there, but nothing too personal, for the above-mentioned reasons. I have had a few devs contact me about some things and I am more than happy to chat through PM or Skype with anyone who has questions. However, even in DO, I don't feel comfortable regaling everyone with a lot of the story of what happened between myself and my ex. That's just a for-instance and I think if I were in a relationship with an AB, I would be curious to hear about why relationships with dis guys don't work out and how it might be potentially complicated by issues around disability. However, as for the day-to-day stuff, I personally have mentioned some things here and there, but to be honest, it isn't that much different than being in a relationship with anyone else. The nursing/carer issue does hit very close to home for me, which is why I've contributed to this conversation (and the one I deleted in the thread that was part of the General discussion). I will say this, and I think it gets to some of the things you mentioned: the reason I deleted that comment in the prior thread did have a bit to do with image. I think there is some pressure that we all feel in social media fora, to give people the highlight reel. Also, I felt I was bitching about things, by reference, that really did not reflect how I felt when I went back and read what I wrote. ::shrug:: Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, at least in my very humble and probably misguided opinion, there is a bit of pressure on both sides of the equation: people in relationships with AB's may feel reluctant to share details about their relationships and people in relationships with PWD, especially who are also members of this site, may feel reluctant to over-share, especially when it comes to topics of conflict or negative aspects of the relationship. I'm not sure if that helps or clarifies anything, but I guess I have a little guilt around having a tendency to mostly share the highlights, which I delight in and want to share - though I'm still evaluating whether or not that is true or if it's just that I feel this way when putting all of this under a microscope (OK, now I'm rambling). I know none of this was personally pointed at me, but like a lot of you, I'm pretty insecure about certain things and I certainly don't want to upset anyone. Just know that I don't want to misrepresent myself or my relationships, so if there is anything that seems unclear and anyone is curious, please do not hesitate to ask, on or off the board. I have also had some messy stuff with members. Nothing very serious like moving in, but feelings were involved. On the other hand, there isn't any other place where I can gush about my husband and get a normal response. In the real world I do it as much as I do here... and I get shit like I'm this noble person (Te latest from my boss). I enjoy being able to talk to devs who are also in LTR's with disabled guys because... I don't have that in real life. I never intended to exclude other devs, but until very, very recently there were so few of us we really didn't have many outlets for sharing the normalcy of relationship in contrast to devness. I am so very glad there are enough of us now to really dish about what it's like, even if we still self-censor for a variety of reasons. All this to say, we all feel excluded when we don't have common ground. Thankfully we are a vastly varied group with enough overlaps in experience and interests that even when we do feel excluded in one conversation, there are others we can revel in. |
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Post by Justagirl on Jan 16, 2015 23:30:24 GMT -5
There are two sides to every coin..... Real life vs. hypothetical, 24/7 experience vs. little to none.... of course there are two sides, or some kind of imaginary line in play here. Do I feel threatened by the other side? Not in the least. I look at it like we each have/had a choice, and we have either chosen heads or tails... we did this because that is what we want, and if it's not, hopefully we are working on changing that. And the "younger" devs who don't know yet? Don't feel left out. You are the ones that can probably benefit the most from seeing both sides of the coin. There is a lot of real life experience here that you can learn from.... points of view that you're not going to find anywhere else. So instead of feeling excluded, take advantage of it.... soak it in and use the experiences here to help you figure out what you want. If you have decided? but haven't found someone, use the experience here to help you figure out how to go about finding him. Am I sometimes "left out" of conversations? Sure, but by no means do I need to be included in on every discussion. The guys here have conversations that don't pertain to me either, but I can still take interest in what they are talking about (sometimes). And I say, good for them, good for anyone that is willing to share (take note of that all you people out there reading the posts but never jumping in When I referred to our differences, I was thinking of the thread about what reminds devs of wheelchairs- strollers, pictures in the paper, etc.... because the truth is that does not happen to me. And I don't have dreams with wheelers in them, and I have never really struggled with being a dev. Maybe it's because I realized my dev side later in life, maybe it's for a number of reasons, who knows. I am who I am. Does this mean sometimes I have less to contribute on certain topics? Of course, but like someone said, there is always another topic that I can jump in on if I want. There can be so many topics- devs and their AB partners- are the partners willing to try and satisfy the dev part of you? When it comes to being a dev, how much do you think they really understand? Do they ever feel threatened? And those devs with disabled partners- Does your guy ever think he can just spasm and you'll be immediately turned on? How often does intimacy get interrupted due to unforeseen circumstances? Do you get a lot of questions from others about the sexual function of your disabled partner? How do you answer? Single devs- if you imagine your future, how much are you willing to change to find the disabled guy of your dreams? Your job? Where you live? Things like kids or no kids? (these may not be the best questions or may have already been asked at some point, I was simply trying to throw some examples out there). As long as we respect each other's differences, I see no problem with this "line" that exists. And hey, one can always step across the line or flip the coin over too. |
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Post by mwin on Jan 17, 2015 3:21:18 GMT -5
I haven't really got much to add that hasn't been said. Funnily enough this thread (or where it has now gone) has done the most to reduce my insecurities about getting involved and posting. Good to hear that other people feel the same - ie sometimes not 'qualified' to comment/have an opinion.
I obviously don't expect to be able to contribute to every thread but there are some that I do think about/have an opinion about and don't post because I haven't had direct experience, just a lot of thoughts or an assumption about how I would feel in a similar situation. I'm always anticipating someone piping up and saying "well, how would you know, you're not dating a PWD" but, to be fair, I don't ever really see that happening.
I'm struggling with the heads/tails - everyone had a choice comment. I really feel like I didn't realise I had a choice in time to be able to make that choice. I wish wish WISH I'd discovered PD about 10 years ago. To have the validation that my feelings are legitimate and that I could follow through and live with myself as I truly am would have been incredible then and who knows where I would be now. Maybe I shouldn't have needed external intervention and should have had the self awareness/confidence to reach this realisation myself...but I didn't. It is what it is.
I realise I still have a choice now but that choice is no longer as simple as 'do I date a PWD or not' it's now 'do I leave a happy marriage/family to find sexual fulfilment and a relationship with my dream guy'
Can't help feeling gutted/frustrated even, hard done by! Haha. I do envy the younger devs finding this space when they are still at a stage where they can make a choice that doesn't affect other people's lives.
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Post by Justagirl on Jan 17, 2015 9:10:30 GMT -5
I'm struggling with the heads/tails - everyone had a choice comment. I really feel like I didn't realise I had a choice in time to be able to make that choice. I wish wish WISH I'd discovered PD about 10 years ago. To have the validation that my feelings are legitimate and that I could follow through and live with myself as I truly am would have been incredible then and who knows where I would be now. Maybe I shouldn't have needed external intervention and should have had the self awareness/confidence to reach this realisation myself...but I didn't. It is what it is. I realise I still have a choice now but that choice is no longer as simple as 'do I date a PWD or not' it's now 'do I leave a happy marriage/family to find sexual fulfilment and a relationship with my dream guy' Can't help feeling gutted/frustrated even, hard done by! Haha. I do envy the younger devs finding this space when they are still at a stage where they can make a choice that doesn't affect other people's lives. I understand mwin. My analogy IS a little over-simplified and much harder to do than flipping a coin. Believe me, I know. To clarify, I feel that everyone that has found PD, that is here now, today, has a choice. Do I feel like I had a choice over 15 years ago when I was in college and dating around? Not really. Unfortunately I was not self aware enough to realize I was a dev on my own and without the internet, etc. to help, I was really quite clueless about what kind of relationship fit me best. But do we have a choice now? Do younger people have a choice? Yes. The difference with those of us who have had more life experience (ok are older) is that things are more complicated now. Instead of just looking at what we want, we also have to take into consideration what we already have, what we stand to lose. There are so many more factors that weigh in on our decisions. So no, it is not as black and white or as simple as flipping a coin, but it is still possible. After all, we are here now which means we have reached some level of self awareness. Being here, and reading differing points of view, different life experiences..... helps with that. And the more you understand yourself, the more of an informed choice you can make on where you want to go. |
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Post by hanabanana on Jan 26, 2015 19:36:03 GMT -5
My mother always told me never to compare myself to others. easy to say, not always easy to do.
I feel lucky, I have found an amazing guy who happens to be super accepting of me and all of my "turn ons". He does not need much personal care and is basically 100% independent. But the caring aspect is very hot to me and he has been very open to me helping him if I feel like it. And if he needs me to he knows I would love to help. While I'm still pretty young and this relationship is still sort of new. But I look forward to how it will develop. He also likes to take care of me, and that excites me quite a lot. I guess I'll just have to see what my dev feelings lead to.
I definitely look up to many of you here. You've had long relationships and moved places, gotten yourselves together and made your life what you want. I hope to do the same.
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Post by lucretia on Jan 27, 2015 0:21:57 GMT -5
He also likes to take care of me, and that excites me quite a lot. Definitely this! My guy totally pampers me. When I don't feel well he cares for me in ways I didn't know existed. I am SO turned on by his taking care of me. I don't know how to explain it, but mutually taking care of each other is just about the sexiest thing ever. |
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tabby
Full Member
Hello PD
Posts: 162
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
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Post by tabby on Jan 27, 2015 2:37:08 GMT -5
Yes Lucretia!! My OH once stayed up all night when i couldn't sleep due to bronchitis we watched yanky doodle workshop and he had work in the morning to go to but admittedly that was early in our relationship. But he is very caring and cuddly when i'm ill or stresses or auntie flow is visiting tmi |
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1nfused
New Member
Posts: 31 
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by 1nfused on Jan 29, 2015 10:51:15 GMT -5
Gosh I'm sorry if it seemed like I was looking for "devness standards", it was NOT my intention, and when I started questioning my being a dev it was just an exaggeration (out of insecurity). I don't think there are, nor there should be, standards in being a dev, I was just curious because I had the feeling on this specific issue I was a minority... but it comes out I'm not after all! I've been around here only a month or so, there's still so much I don't know about how other people live their devvyness, so I apologize if i used the wrong words to express my curiosity. Oh god, totally late to the party. I just signed up, and will introduce myself later on, for now though I thought I'd add my 2c to this discussion here, mostly because I find it especially intriguing! I'm a female dev in her 20's and I've had this preference for as long as I can think. I even happened to stumble across a few other RL dev-like females, too! (I understand I can't speak for them, but I can recall my experiences with them.) No, no, no, you're not an unusual dev for not jacking into the carer thing, not in my perception anyway. Even though I personally love the caring aspect and this idea of a vulnerable man who needs to be looked out for really does it for me. I'd equally settle for someone who's completely independent and doesn't need anyone to pay special attention or to nurse / care. (I have a wide variety of disability preferences, some require lots of care, others none. All are hot!) At the end of the day it's finding disability hot / enjoyable / erotic that makes a dev, not which disability it is, not if or not one enjoys the caring aspect, not anything else. You'll find a broad range of personal tastes whatever the sexual preference, I'd be more shocked if all devs enjoyed the same things for the same reasons!  |
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