The stillness... long and rambly ... so be aware

[Inigo Montoya]

I was talking to Lucretia and her “ask a dev” stint came up. That's when I truly, finally became aware of... really conscious... of the way that some of the guys regard our admiration? attraction? to what I call, “the stillness.”
 
In spite of my repeated promises to not post anything of depth here any more, I'm going to attempt to describe it and open a discussion about it. I would normally post this in Devs Only... I'm posting it here to allow the guys to comment. There's been a lot of discussion about how it would be nice to have some topics out here to discuss... so here it is. Even knowing some of guys well enough to know how they'll respond, and even though I fear that response (this is some of my deep stuff, folks), I am posting it here anyway. Some of the guys, whether they admit it or not, will hate me for this. I'm okay with it for once... not looking for a guy here any more and feeling kinda fuckitish. One should seize and embrace the fuckitish feeling when it arises because it might not last long. Lol

I'm not sure I can explain it because, well, just because...
 
Also, this is my opinion and the way I feel. I just realized (about part-way into the paragraph below) that I'm talking as if I'm speaking for all devs and that's not true. Also, in grammatically infuriating manner, I am totally switching back and forth between she and I, so... E, Paige and Lucretia... be prepared. ;D
 
One of the first things I was ever asked about as far as being a dev, was what I liked. That question was in person and out loud and, thanks to stuff that guy had already said, I was feeling about as unsafe psychologically and emotionally as it can get outside of talking to someone that I love. It wasn't really the guy's fault. He'd been talking and it was just that his efforts to put me at ease, discussing this stuff, really didn't. Because he was unconsciously saying lots of things that really indicated that he's not okay with dev-ness. So, I want to throw that out there first. If you have a shot at a dev, if she means anything to you then you have to try to create a safe space for her to discuss this stuff. If you really want to know  HER.

The reason we have a devs only section is because we, the devs, needed that space. If she can't talk about it... if she feels like she has to hide those things from you then it's going to add a level of secrecy to your relationship that you might not want. It might be alright for you and she... but be aware that the second you jump me over something that I've said about this... the second that you snap out about something that offends you... instead of asking questions and clarifying and coming to an understanding about it... I'm not sharing with you again. You've lost that. And it may be that you don't want it. There was a time here that I remember when a lot of the guys were griping that we devs wanted to keep it all fantasy. Well, when you wander into the real world with it you have to deal with it there. So try to be sure, before you stomp all over me emotionally, that you want to take this real world.
 
Online conversations is where I've been able to talk about this, with guys who've made me feel safe, in conversations with other devs... or maybe it's the distance that online allows that makes it safe enough... but I was finally able to think and answer those questions some. So, back to the topic.
 
To me the stillness is... it's that lack of movement, the limpness of paralyzed limbs. I have no clue why I like it. I've seen it likened to necrophilia here... but that's not it at all. I don't like dead things, they do nothing for me sexually and so I want to do what I can to correct that idea. Paralyzed limbs are so not dead, if they were then the doctors would amputate them. They live... they're just quiet. That leads to other things for the people who live with them (from what I can tell from conversations)... like them sometimes being forgotten. Or they're quietly uncontrollable.... which sometimes makes them despised.
 
I like them for those very things. For their quietness and their lack of control. I like that a man has to put thought into moving his legs. Most of us don't. We totally take movement for granted and mostly don't think about it. But paralysis forces that thought. Even for those who can still walk. I remember Triassic talking about the focus that crutch walking takes. And even those who walk almost unaided have to pay close attention to where they step. It's attractive. I don't know... but I do know it's not because of any deadness.

I LIKE the quietness. I wrote a story once about playing with a man's lower half when he was asleep. I asked permission to even write the fantasy. But I love the idea of lavishing affection on those quiet parts. Legs, cock, feet that may provide minimal or even no response but get little actual love anyway. It is a fantasy... but if I ever get an opportunity … with someone who is okay enough with their quiet parts to let me have MY way... I'd like to spend some time with them. Which is not to say that I don't adore the upper, busier parts of a man too. And the fact that they are busier also plays into all of this. The fact that arms and hands are doing the work of the quiet parts. I love watching a quads hands do work differently. I love the parts where sensation is different. Knowing that I don't really know what it feels like and can't. That I need to keep moving to make it still be good for him. That there are places that feel far more than my skin can fathom. It's fascinating and beautiful.

[eddieb]

"Fascinating and beautiful" -- like the way you express yourself.

I am someone who has sensation but also one whose body needs to "do work differently." -- My friends call it "EddieMechanics" (like using my hands to lift my leg or letting my neck take the brunt of the stress and be the fulcrum for some of the rest of my body). So while I do not understand complete paralysis, I do understand having limbs that are not "controllable" - at least not in the normal sense of the term.

I sure hope guys are not offended by what you wrote. There is a difference between 'feeling sorry' and feeling care or empathy. There is a difference between amusement and attraction. There is a difference between exploiting and experiencing. The difference is, in all of the former, the person is the object, the (as you refer to in a way) 'lifeless being' that is there purely to be acted upon. Yet that's not how you treat the person. You treat the person in the latter (positive) ways -- as the subject of your care, your interest, your desires. In other words, you are not merely acting upon someone, but *interacting* with someone and with what makes him unique. That the idea of 'quiet uncontrollability' is what particularly piques your interest is great. We each have our own types, our own desires, partciular or quirky traits that we are atracted to. And while I wouldn't deign to address how any particular interests - be they more unique or even the most mundane - come about, yours seems to arise from a sense of caring, or a desire to give pleasure, or to connect and give joy when joy is hard for the 'recipient' to receive. But, when it comes down to it, it ultimately doesn't matter from where that spark was sparked. Perhaps it sparks from a heavy sense of empathy, or a desire of overcoming challenges, of admiring the underdog that overcomes challenges himself, or a myriad other potentialities. What is most important (in my view at least) is that there is nothing malicious, nothing malevolent, nothing sinful, poisonous or pernicious. Quite to the contrary; you find joy in bringing joy, in making the crooked feel upright (or, even better, feel perfectly right about being crooked). So I hope you...and the right legs, cock and feet....can simply enjoy the connections.

And after that long rambling of my own: Let's make sure not to get too lost in analysis -- If we are overly dwell on what brought us to this point in the road, or if we are too consumed with fear of what the road ahead may hold, we will never see the simple beauty in where we stand.

Enjoy,
Ed

[BA]

a) I am really glad you shared this, Inigo. It is a piece of art in and of itself. "Fascinating and beautiful."

b) Eddieb said, "But, when it comes down to it, it ultimately doesn't matter from where that spark was sparked. Perhaps it sparks from a heavy sense of empathy, or a desire of overcoming challenges, of admiring the underdog that overcomes challenges himself, or a myriad other potentialities. What is most important (in my view at least) is that there is nothing malicious, nothing malevolent, nothing sinful, poisonous or pernicious. Quite to the contrary; you find joy in bringing joy, in making the crooked feel upright (or, even better, feel perfectly right about being crooked)"

Yes.

and

Yes.

Edited to add: ...and if I recall correctly, being able to post like this was the reason I joined this community to begin with.

[Lord Chatterley]

What is most important (in my view at least) is that there is nothing malicious, nothing malevolent, nothing sinful, poisonous or pernicious.

Sinful fantasies are very, very common - see Kinsey, M & J, Nancy Friday, Ray Tannahill etc., etc..

Take a look around this site for example, and this is just the tip of the iceberg -

www.bizarremag.com/weird-news/tattoos-body-art/10300/double_suspension_marriage.html

LC

[faith]

This site never ceases to amaze me. I continually learn about others and about myself.

Indigo- you captured on the screen exactly how I feel... I could have written those words, not as eloquently, but the same point!

The stillness is beautiful, peaceful, secure. The stillness is vulnerable yet at the same time strong... when he transfers or moves or just rolls along. From a physical standpoint it is perfect for me- the way it should be.

Your words about things taking thought is SO true. That is so appealing and sexy! Thoughtful. Fully engaged. Fully present.

My sweetie has told me several times that since his accident he is more aware of everything, himself and those around him. More appreciative of things. More present when with his relationships and friends. This is SO hot to me. I think that stillness, that forced thought on just doing some physical things, is a big part of my attraction.

And besides...the stillness means he doesn't kick me at night.

[Corey]

It’s such an obvious question to ask a dev: why are you attracted to people in wheelchairs? But I have thought about this and I don’t think it’s a fair question and I don’t think it matters.

I am definitely curious to know the answer, but I think almost any answer will be unsatisfactory anyway, because describing sexual attraction of any kind is so damn difficult (although Indigo did an amazing job trying to do it!). I like long hair on a woman, but I cannot tell you why. In contrast, I can tell you why I love the piano, why The Wire is my favorite TV series, and can even explain abstract attractions, like why my favorite color is blue. But I cannot put into words any reason why I am attracted to long hair.

I am reading the book The Social Animal by David Brooks. Here’s a brief passage:

“David Buss surveyed over ten thousand people in thirty-seven different societies and found that standards of female beauty are pretty much the same around the globe. Men everywhere value clear skin, full lips, long lustrous hair, symmetrical features, shorter distances between the mouth and chin and between the nose and chin, and a waist-to-hip ratio of about 0.7.”

These are very particular features, and there is not a clear reason why the typical man would find such attributes beautiful. I think its fair to say men may not be able to explain whats so beautiful about full lips, for example, even though it is ostensibly a wide held belief.

My point is: I am never going to have first date where I have to sit down and explain to my prospective partner why I find a “waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7” or even “long lustrous hair” beautiful, and thank god for that because I would not know where to begin. So why should devs have to explain their attraction, unless they are willing to?

Of course a dev and their para partner should be comfortable discussing these things at some point, if they are in a relationship for long enough. But I think sexual attraction, whether it be long hair or stillness, is a creepy thing to talk about or hear about unless you are intimately comfortable with the person you are talking with. A compliment is one thing, but explaining sexual attraction is a different beast altogether. I wouldn’t dare tell a woman in detail how I think shes beautiful, how I think shes perfect, etc etc, until I’ve been with them for a long time because she would find it creepy, and rightly so. It’s unfortunate that devs are placed in a position where their partners are aware of their attraction, because the “whys” inevitably follow. Its a difficult and complex question, and in almost any other situation, a person would not have to answer why they have a deep attraction to someone else.

[ruthmadison]

May 30, 2011 21:00:15 GMT -5 Corey said:

It’s such an obvious question to ask a dev: why are you attracted to people in wheelchairs? But I have thought about this and I don’t think it’s a fair question and I don’t think it matters.

I am definitely curious to know the answer, but I think almost any answer will be unsatisfactory anyway, because describing sexual attraction of any kind is so damn difficult (although Indigo did an amazing job trying to do it!). I like long hair on a woman, but I cannot tell you why. In contrast, I can tell you why I love the piano, why The Wire is my favorite TV series, and can even explain abstract attractions, like why my favorite color is blue. But I cannot put into words any reason why I am attracted to long hair.

I am reading the book The Social Animal by David Brooks. Here’s a brief passage:

“David Buss surveyed over ten thousand people in thirty-seven different societies and found that standards of female beauty are pretty much the same around the globe. Men everywhere value clear skin, full lips, long lustrous hair, symmetrical features, shorter distances between the mouth and chin and between the nose and chin, and a waist-to-hip ratio of about 0.7.”

These are very particular features, and there is not a clear reason why the typical man would find such attributes beautiful. I think its fair to say men may not be able to explain whats so beautiful about full lips, for example, even though it is ostensibly a wide held belief.

My point is: I am never going to have first date where I have to sit down and explain to my prospective partner why I find a “waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7” or even “long lustrous hair” beautiful, and thank god for that because I would not know where to begin. So why should devs have to explain their attraction, unless they are willing to?

Of course a dev and their para partner should be comfortable discussing these things at some point, if they are in a relationship for long enough. But I think sexual attraction, whether it be long hair or stillness, is a creepy thing to talk about or hear about unless you are intimately comfortable with the person you are talking with. A compliment is one thing, but explaining sexual attraction is a different beast altogether. I wouldn’t dare tell a woman in detail how I think shes beautiful, how I think shes perfect, etc etc, until I’ve been with them for a long time because she would find it creepy, and rightly so. It’s unfortunate that devs are placed in a position where their partners are aware of their attraction, because the “whys” inevitably follow. Its a difficult and complex question, and in almost any other situation, a person would not have to answer why they have a deep attraction to someone else.

It's more like you *aren't* attracted to long hair, you prefer short hair and every girl you try to talk to has long hair and expects you to love it. It's having an attraction that is not what 99% of the rest of your peers have. So, people do tend to want an explanation for that.

Of course there is no explanation!

You're right, it isn't a fair or reasonable question and no one can actually describe why he likes what he likes!

Inigo, I think you describe beautifully the stillness, the quietness. I really relate to that.

[Inigo Montoya]

Fuzzydunlop, I lurve you and was going to ask you to marry me until Luracita pointed out that I'm old enough to be your mother.

Ed,

Thank you for the compliment and your eloquence.

May 30, 2011 17:16:00 GMT -5 eddieb said:

Quite to the contrary; you find joy in bringing joy, in making the crooked feel upright (or, even better, feel perfectly right about being crooked).

I'm pulling this out... the bolded part in particular. That's the thing I'd want in a long term relationship.* Not so much that I could or would bring that to him... but that we could have it together. His acceptance of himself and my celebration of his differences.

*If I weren't constantly swearing off relationships and doing so for very practical reasons right now.

LC, I swear you've posted a link to that mag after me at least twice now... you trying to tell me something? ;D

[Inigo Montoya]

Girlies... thanks so much for the affirmation.

[brace4impact]

I think that makes total sense. And I don't know if I speak for most guys, but I think one thing that attracts me to devs (instead of a lot of other disabled people who either fear or despise devs) is the very attention we would receive in such a manner Inigo. Perhaps in the end it is all just affirmation; that a woman is not only just tolerant of our disability but embraces it. I'm able to walk with braces, but I still have that "stillness" you speak of, not being able to really move my feet and toes etc. So to me, having someone find that attractive, even a turn-on, is one reason why I like devs.

[Emma]

May 30, 2011 15:33:22 GMT -5 Inigo Montoya said:

 
But I love the idea of lavishing affection on those quiet parts. Legs, cock, feet that may provide minimal or even no response but get little actual love anyway. It is a fantasy... but if I ever get an opportunity … with someone who is okay enough with their quiet parts to let me have MY way... I'd like to spend some time with them. Which is not to say that I don't adore the upper, busier parts of a man too. And the fact that they are busier also plays into all of this. The fact that arms and hands are doing the work of the quiet parts.

I am so glad you shared that with us Inigo (and left it posted long enough for me to read). Like many guys here I have tried to understand the attraction to paralyzed limbs ever since I joined. What you wrote certainly comes the closest to helping me understand it. Thank you.

While I don't have the same feelings about stillness as you do, I do understand what your saying about lavishing attention on the still/injured parts. That is a very big part of my attraction as well.

[~Z28gal~]

Ah, Inigo, that is BEAUTIFUL!!! Thank you for that, I always dread that question.

And dunlop - thank you for understanding why it is so hard to answer that question!

[E]

May 30, 2011 17:44:25 GMT -5 BA said:

Edited to add: ...and if I recall correctly, being able to post like this was the reason I joined this community to begin with.

Me too, absolutely.

Which is why every time Inigo posted that she was never going to say anything of depth again, it troubled me.

Thank you for that great post, Clovingocy. Posts like that are half of this board's purpose, arguably the more important half.

(The other half being, originally, sharing dev pr0n.)

I hope you continue to share. This place is worse when you are silent, and more shallow without your depth.

[Valkyrja]

My dear friend, what you've written is beyond beautiful.
You've managed to put words to a lot of what I've always felt but thay I have rarely been able to express.
What a wonderful way to express what, at least for me, is to be a dev.
And, as many here have stated, when you call yourself to silence and you subtract yourself from the threads ... our loss is immense.
Many times, I do subtract myself from the threads for my eternal fear of being misunderstood (by the famous language barrier); but in your case, Ini ... this barrier does not exist and you should never fail to express what you feel as you do in that honest, deep and wonderful way.
Thank you very much, my friend!

[Lord Chatterley]

May 30, 2011 22:22:13 GMT -5 Inigo Montoya said:

LC, I swear you've posted a link to that mag after me at least twice now... you trying to tell me something? ;D

Um...bit tied up at the moment...

LC

Time for tea...

www.splosh.co.uk/

BTW Inigo, that stillness post was intense!