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Post by Dee Dee on Nov 26, 2011 10:35:54 GMT -5
I would NEVER settle for a woman that can ''look past my disability'' or one that doesn't find me sexy and irresistible. I realize that maybe only 2% of the world's population(male and female) may have enough depth and character to be open to having a relationship with a disabled person. Obviously most devs fall within that 2%...but many don't(those that it's nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy, and aren't interested or suitable for a long-term relationship) LNH, I would like to say that devotees are devotees, no matter if they seek a relationship with a disabled person, of if they have it as a sexual fetish or fantasy, but do not seek an actual relationship with someone disabled. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 13:56:20 GMT -5
I'm not really a 'dev magnet' fortunately I'm pretty busy with non-dev ladies. ;o} LNH, I think I know what u are trying to say here, but I am not sure. The way it is put makes me somehow uncomfortable though, because it can kind of imply that you consider yourself "above" dating a devotee? (as if dev is the bottom of the barrel, last resort?). I don't think you mean this, but sometimes I have heard things like this from other guys and it makes me feel pretty crappy. It is possible that you might not know if you are a dev-magnet or not? I venture a guess that the absolute majority of devs would NEVER tell you that was part of their attraction for fear of repercussions in the r'ship as well as fear of addressing their own feelings. I can tell you of all the guys I dated, not one knew that part of my attraction, because I, couldn't process it enough to put it into words. I probably was just about the most non-dev acting girlfriend you could find. I also know that when I was with my b/f over those yrs and we were involved with sports with a number of other disabled guys, that quite a few, if not most, of the girls around them were def. undisclosed devotees. I knew this in my heart b/c of the amount of time they spent exclusively amongst disabled guys and many had more than one disabled male partner. It wasn't given a second thought because this attraction hadn't yet become a 'watchword' in the dis. community. Nobody spoke of it, ever. It was perceived that we were simply more open-minded, that's all. I don't think you meant to disparage devs with what you said, but I would love to have a little clarification. I think the girls on this board represent a pretty small fraction of 'devotees' out there. BA...I would absolutely love to clarify my sentiments. I, in no way meant anything disparaging to my lovely Dev-friends. I am part of the PD community, and have formed some great friendships here. I didn't come looking for dev-love, however I am always looking for 'twew love' and am definitely open to the fact that she could be a dev. In fact, ultimately she will be a 'Jeff-dev' and i will be the craziest M-FUKN ........(fill-in-the-name) devotee of her... imaginable. I was simply saying in my confusing statement previously... that I am currently busy with non-devs...and happy. Many of you know of my dev experiences (met a wonderful, unique, exciting, brilliant woman with most of the same interests, and I can guarantee that it would have been epic if only she had been 10 yrs older... Then I met a smoking hot dev, invested a lot of time into her...just to find out she was imaginary...that was a wee bit humiliating...fortunately I'm resilient. I've met a few other hip, happening devs, but the timing wasn't there to investigate further. I will always be open to dating dev and non-devs alike... to be absolutely honest... I don't really differentiate between the two groups at all. At the end of the day I'm going to sweep someone off their feet with my character, intellect, sense of humor, attitude, and zest for life....not my wheelchair! Well BA...I hope I clarified sufficiently, without roling over more toes... I'm definitely willing to explain further or answer any other inquiries. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 14:10:26 GMT -5
I would NEVER settle for a woman that can ''look past my disability'' or one that doesn't find me sexy and irresistible. I realize that maybe only 2% of the world's population(male and female) may have enough depth and character to be open to having a relationship with a disabled person. Obviously most devs fall within that 2%...but many don't(those that it's nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy, and aren't interested or suitable for a long-term relationship) LNH, I would like to say that devotees are devotees, no matter if they seek a relationship with a disabled person, of if they have it as a sexual fetish or fantasy, but do not seek an actual relationship with someone disabled. Dee Dee, that was precisely the point I was hoping to make. Not for the sake of the Devs on PD...but for the new guys... DEVS are women(sorry there are males too, but I don't give them much thought...) and like all women...many are interested in a long-term relationship...however, I was making the point for the new guys...that not all devs are interested in long term relationships. That isn't advertised too much on here(I think because the vast majority on PD are sincere and are truly seeking a love-filled LTR). Amongst the very vocal and frequent posters(the un-attached anyway) they all seem to be in the latter classification. However we all know that there is a lot going on in PM's and emails...that isn't so public. It was just a heads up...maybe necessary...maybe not... maybe wanted...maybe not. I'm not trying to take Spirit of Muromet's place and stir up anything with you ladies...promise. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 16:10:15 GMT -5
How many of you guys would sustain a sexual relationship with someone who you found tolerable bus not a turn on? Do you in anyway feel that YOU have had to lower your standards of what you find attractive because of your disability? If so, what made you feel you had to lower them? Whose message are you buying into? Hey, I am no disability activist by any means but I think it is very telling when a guy says "Hey, I can get all "regular" girls - don't need a dev.". It implies that the dev is quite abnormal and that being with one would minimize a guy's status (even in his own mind). Talk about buying strictly into what the majority thinks is attractive! Yeah we all do it. The devs and our guilt is pretty well tied up in going against the grain of societies' view that disabled bodies = asexual and no way arousing. Takes guts and work to buck that majority. Guys, I would love your thought. I promise no arguments from my end! Thank you BA for expressing your concerns on this issue. I think you’re bringing up a really interesting point and I will not waste my time agreeing with all the things you say. I’d rather turn your argument upside-down for a moment. What does it say about the guy when he thinks: "Hey, I can get all "regular" girls - don't need a dev" ?? To me it’s a testament of his insecurities in regards to his own body and his disability, why else would someone prefer a partner who is into him despite of his physical appearance if he can have someone who thinks he’s hot? You say you’re not a disability activist and I have to admit (sadly) that I am no longer one either. Yes, I used to be but at some point in my life I realized that there was no point in fighting for the rights of people who ultimately would rather spend their time despising themselves – and people like them – than do something about changing society’s views on them – so I gave up being an activist. In my most obsessively optimistic moments I still dream of the sight if an annual ‘cripple pride parade’ where the gimps, the invalids, the spasmodic, the lame, the midgets, the dimwits, the goons, the retards, the mongoloids, the retarded and all the other ‘differently abled’ (for the record, I despise this term way more than any of the former ones) join hands (or whatever sort of limb they are able to join) and show themselves to the world in all their glorious differentness with dignity and self-esteem, where the shame, the sorrow and the remorse are things of yesterday and long forgotten. But alas, I know only of a rare few cripples who deep down are not ashamed of who they are so this will remain just a pipe dream for me, I’m afraid, but maybe a dream of a better future after all. But (back to the point) the lack of confidence in oneself on the part of the guys is the crux of this discussion as far as I am concerned. If they are not able to embrace their physical self as something worth loving how will they ever be able to live with a partner who find them physically attractive? I am not attacking any of the guys on this board since I only know a few of you personally, I am just making my observations from the disabled men and women I’ve known in my life (and yes, it’s quite a few after all) and the conversations I’ve had and the observations I’ve done there. And I know that this lack of self-worth is a major issue that often stands in the way of embracing a loving relationship with someone who is willing to admit that they love the person because of – and not despite of – their physical appearance. I can see why it must be so frustrating to love someone and be rejected because of the very love one feels for the person. But like I’ve tried to convey it really has more to do with the feelings the recipient has for himself than it has to do with the love that he is not able to receive. So needless to say I am happy for the fact that there are women in this world who find me attractive because of my disability and I am grateful for the ones who I talk to and the ones who are my friends both on this board and elsewhere around the world. Am I weird? Most certainly – but I’m thankful and proud of it!! ;D Alf, I've spent 30 mins trying to isolate a few of your statements...but can't(I am in dire need of a Quotation Clinic) First off Alf, I definitely respect your wealth of experience with both the disabled on and off the board, AND your experience with Devs...again, on and off this board. I also respect your intellect and ability to communicate clearly...without ruffling any feathers. I frequently end up with feathers on my clothes. I think the crux of this discussion came from BA's statement ''"Hey, I can get all "regular" girls - don't need a dev.". It implies that the dev is quite abnormal and that being with one would minimize a guy's status (even in his own mind).'' I'm not sure if she is using my post or not...reading back, chronologically...I'm assuming that she is. I have never used ''normal'' or abnormal in my posts...I don't see it that way. I clearly used ''dev'' and non-dev'' in my posts. I don't think there is a more politically correct manner to differentiate between the two groups. If there is...someone please educate me. Alf I agree with most eveything you've said(historically...I have as well) I would like to discuss a couple of your statements further though. You said: ''I’d rather turn your argument upside-down for a moment. What does it say about the guy when he thinks: "Hey, I can get all "regular" girls - don't need a dev" ?? To me it’s a testament of his insecurities in regards to his own body and his disability, why else would someone prefer a partner who is into him despite of his physical appearance if he can have someone who thinks he’s hot?'' I want to re-itterate BA used ''normal'' vs abnormal...and you used ''regular'' vs. irregular. I used ''dev'' vs. ''non-dev'' Am I the only one on PD that believes a non-dev can be truly attracted to a disabled person both physically, and as a whole? My only dating experiences have been with non-devs... does that say something about my self-esteem? Or does it say that I haven't crossed paths with a dev in Spokane, Washington...or in my travels that has approached me or vice versa? Alf, you also said ''So needless to say I am happy for the fact that there are women in this world who find me attractive because of my disability and I am grateful for the ones who I talk to and the ones who are my friends both on this board and elsewhere around the world.'' You didn't say that you've had meaningful relationships with women that don't identify themselves as a dev.. have you? Do you think it's possible that a non-dev could find you physically attractive? Or simply find you overall appealing..."despite'' your disabled condition? I've never said anything negative about devoteeism...nor have I avoided delicate issues or avoided stating my opinion honestly for fear of dev repercussions. I think this was a case of some people misconstruing my statement, and adding their own spin to it. I don't think i'm any better than any person on the board...some are more disabled(devs included)...some less... some better adjusted...some not. Some more confident....some less. I did jump on one guy because I found his arrogance repulsive...but that was one negative encounter out of 347 posts. I don't believe that ''my only shot' at romance or love has to be with a dev. I frequently see guys come...and usually go... that have this desperate ''last ditch' attitude towards Devs. I think it's sad, and degrading for both demographical groups when this occurs. |
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Post by Dee Dee on Nov 26, 2011 17:11:19 GMT -5
LNH, I would like to say that devotees are devotees, no matter if they seek a relationship with a disabled person, of if they have it as a sexual fetish or fantasy, but do not seek an actual relationship with someone disabled. Dee Dee, that was precisely the point I was hoping to make. Not for the sake of the Devs on PD...but for the new guys... DEVS are women(sorry there are males too, but I don't give them much thought...) and like all women...many are interested in a long-term relationship...however, I was making the point for the new guys...that not all devs are interested in long term relationships. That isn't advertised too much on here(I think because the vast majority on PD are sincere and are truly seeking a love-filled LTR). Amongst the very vocal and frequent posters(the un-attached anyway) they all seem to be in the latter classification. However we all know that there is a lot going on in PM's and emails...that isn't so public. It was just a heads up...maybe necessary...maybe not... maybe wanted...maybe not. I'm not trying to take Spirit of Muromet's place and stir up anything with you ladies...promise. May I ask why you use the wording "nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy"? Why "nothing more than"? Thanks for clarifying in the above, it did not say anywhere that it was a heads-up to new guys, so I did not read it as such. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 17:31:18 GMT -5
Dee Dee, that was precisely the point I was hoping to make. Not for the sake of the Devs on PD...but for the new guys... DEVS are women(sorry there are males too, but I don't give them much thought...) and like all women...many are interested in a long-term relationship...however, I was making the point for the new guys...that not all devs are interested in long term relationships. That isn't advertised too much on here(I think because the vast majority on PD are sincere and are truly seeking a love-filled LTR). Amongst the very vocal and frequent posters(the un-attached anyway) they all seem to be in the latter classification. However we all know that there is a lot going on in PM's and emails...that isn't so public. It was just a heads up...maybe necessary...maybe not... maybe wanted...maybe not. I'm not trying to take Spirit of Muromet's place and stir up anything with you ladies...promise. May I ask why you use the wording "nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy"? Why "nothing more than"? Thanks for clarifying in the above, it did not say anywhere that it was a heads-up to new guys, so I did not read it as such. Dee Dee, My statement was ''I would NEVER settle for a woman that can ''look past my disability'' or one that doesn't find me sexy and irresistible. I realize that maybe only 2% of the world's population(male and female) may have enough depth and character to be open to having a relationship with a disabled person. Obviously most devs fall within that 2%...but many don't(those that it's nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy, and aren't interested or suitable for a long-term relationship)'' All I am saying, is that in my personal experience with Devs(fairly limited time-wise) I have met several self-proclaimed Devs that admit that they are not interested in a LTR with a wheeler. They have told me that's it's strictly something sexual, or a fantasy. I'm simply repeating what I've been told...nothing more...nothing less. I've met other Devs that are married to AB men, they, also are not interested in a long term relationship with a wheeler at the present time...which I think is good... |
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Post by Dee Dee on Nov 26, 2011 18:19:56 GMT -5
May I ask why you use the wording "nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy"? Why "nothing more than"? Thanks for clarifying in the above, it did not say anywhere that it was a heads-up to new guys, so I did not read it as such. Dee Dee, My statement was ''I would NEVER settle for a woman that can ''look past my disability'' or one that doesn't find me sexy and irresistible. I realize that maybe only 2% of the world's population(male and female) may have enough depth and character to be open to having a relationship with a disabled person. Obviously most devs fall within that 2%...but many don't(those that it's nothing more than a sexual fetish or fantasy, and aren't interested or suitable for a long-term relationship)'' All I am saying, is that in my personal experience with Devs(fairly limited time-wise) I have met several self-proclaimed Devs that admit that they are not interested in a LTR with a wheeler. They have told me that's it's strictly something sexual, or a fantasy. I'm simply repeating what I've been told...nothing more...nothing less. I've met other Devs that are married to AB men, they, also are not interested in a long term relationship with a wheeler at the present time...which I think is good... I think we may be talking about different things here? I just wanted to point out, that that "nothing more" can be all-encompassing in a devotee´s life. Relationship with a disabled person or not, she is still a devotee. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 18:26:12 GMT -5
You're right...we are talking about different things...  |
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Nov 26, 2011 18:32:22 GMT -5
I don't believe that ''my only shot' at romance or love has to be with a dev. I frequently see guys come...and usually go... that have this desperate ''last ditch' attitude towards Devs. I think it's sad, and degrading for both demographical groups when this occurs. You're right. It is degrading... but it also seems to be kind of common here. So we have a tendency to be hypervigilant. So, when you said this... As far as I know, none have been devs. I'm not really a 'dev magnet' fortunately I'm pretty busy with non-dev ladies. ;o} ... at the end. I'll admit that I was surprised and dismayed. And thought... I just don't have the energy to tackle it again right now. I was glad when BA asked you for clarification. And I appreciate you giving it. I'll be honest, being a dev here can be more than a little hard on one's self esteem at times. It always worries me when guys show up here thinking they'll find their soul-mate (or f*ck mate) among us... because there are so few of us. So, no, I don't think that devs are the only people who can be geniunely attracted to people with disabilities. The huge irony in all this is that I might someday find the man of my dreams but he won't truly want what I am. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 19:00:30 GMT -5
I don't believe that ''my only shot' at romance or love has to be with a dev. I frequently see guys come...and usually go... that have this desperate ''last ditch' attitude towards Devs. I think it's sad, and degrading for both demographical groups when this occurs. You're right. It is degrading... but it also seems to be kind of common here. So we have a tendency to be hypervigilant. So, when you said this... As far as I know, none have been devs. I'm not really a 'dev magnet' fortunately I'm pretty busy with non-dev ladies. ;o} ... at the end. I'll admit that I was surprised and dismayed. And thought... I just don't have the energy to tackle it again right now. I was glad when BA asked you for clarification. And I appreciate you giving it. I'll be honest, being a dev here can be more than a little hard on one's self esteem at times. It always worries me when guys show up here thinking they'll find their soul-mate (or f*ck mate) among us... because there are so few of us. So, no, I don't think that devs are the only people who can be geniunely attracted to people with disabilities. I'm sorry that I dismayed you Love...that has never, and never will be my intent. I came here to learn all about devotees. If I were here to find the love of my live, vagina of my life, week of my life, or the dev of my life... I would most likely, instead find an amputee dev website or disabled dating site. While I am an incomplete para/WC user... I am also a dbl amputee. Most here are into paras, and I knew that when I 1st found the site. I don't have the stillness, or the desirable hands or other physical attributes that many have stated that they love. With my comment...I was just updating my dev friends on my current romantic state...the ones that I am super close to, already know what I'm up to...others that I don't run into as much, but still love, and value their friendship...don't know. I wasn't trying to do anything other than update these friends... next time i'll send out half a dozen PM's LOL. |
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Nov 26, 2011 19:06:00 GMT -5
You're right. It is degrading... but it also seems to be kind of common here. So we have a tendency to be hypervigilant. So, when you said this... ... at the end. I'll admit that I was surprised and dismayed. And thought... I just don't have the energy to tackle it again right now. I was glad when BA asked you for clarification. And I appreciate you giving it. I'll be honest, being a dev here can be more than a little hard on one's self esteem at times. It always worries me when guys show up here thinking they'll find their soul-mate (or f*ck mate) among us... because there are so few of us. So, no, I don't think that devs are the only people who can be geniunely attracted to people with disabilities. I'm sorry that I dismayed you Love...that has never, and never will be my intent. I came here to learn all about devotees. If I were here to find the love of my live, vagina of my life, week of my life, or the dev of my life... I would most likely, instead find an amputee dev website or disabled dating site. While I am an incomplete para/WC user... I am also a dbl amputee. Most here are into paras, and I knew that when I 1st found the site. I don't have the stillness, or the desirable hands or other physical attributes that many have stated that they love. With my comment...I was just updating my dev friends on my current romantic state...the ones that I am super close to, already know what I'm up to...others that I don't run into as much, but still love, and value their friendship...don't know. I wasn't trying to do anything other than update these friends... next time i'll send out half a dozen PM's LOL. I didn't think you meant it that way... but still, it was kinda the way it read, you know? I've had that happen too, though, so I definitely understand. As far as the other... you're one of those people whom I expect to never be single for long.  Also, you can send out pms to several people at once, if you need to. Also, best of luck. |
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Post by BA on Nov 26, 2011 19:12:07 GMT -5
I don't think you mean this, but sometimes I have heard things like this from other guys and it makes me feel pretty crappy. I don't think you meant to disparage devs with what you said, but I would love to have a little clarification. @lnh: My request was for clarification of your original post, which you kindly gave. I was very clear (I thought) when I said that I didn't think you mean to disparage devs at all. Please do not take my question as accusatory. It was not meant to be. Also, I absolutely believe that non-devs can and do fall in love with disabled people and find them beautiful in all regards. I have no doubt of it. It would certainly be insulting to say that cannot happen. |
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Post by BA on Nov 26, 2011 19:27:09 GMT -5
I can see why it must be so frustrating to love someone and be rejected because of the very love one feels for the person. - Hell yes, it's frustrating. In addition to the paucity of wheelers in any given local area, this is probably the second largest obstacle to ending up in a long term relationship with a wheeler (and why many of us end up with AB men.) |
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Post by Emma on Nov 26, 2011 19:28:06 GMT -5
As far as I know, none have been devs. I'm not really a 'dev magnet' fortunately I'm pretty busy with non-dev ladies. ;o} When I read your comment LNH I wasn't surprised, dismayed, disparaged or any of the other adjectives that have been used here. I was happy you have women interested in you since it seems so often that women are shallow and don't consider dating someone with a disability. When I saw how the comment got turned around I was thinking it made for an interesting discussion but clearly knew that's not what you meant by it. |
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Post by dolly on Nov 26, 2011 20:10:45 GMT -5
although completely possible for a non-dev to dig you and your body fully, i expect any non-dev would still deep down in the recesses of their heart somewhere 'prefer' that you were able bodied. devs 'prefer' you just as you are. of course often i find myself wishing for the other person that they didn't have a disability to contend with or didn't have such a difficult time with doing certain things, etc. and that is a huge part of the dev guilt for me. because i do 'prefer' a man to be disabled. blah. it's still a mind-f*ck, even for me, even all these years later. but i think that is the ultimate difference between dev and non-dev. i think it's also what weirds disabled guys out... thinking it must be a control issue or some sort of insecurity on our part. but it's just what we are attracted to. i personally think a dev-wheeler relationship between the right partners (including a fully accepting wheeler), is a total win-win. i also would remind the guys that just because someone you've had a relationship with hasn't revealed herself as a dev, it doesn't mean she wasn't one. many devs probably don't even know 'what' they are. many probably choose to not identify with the label. and many many many probably keep it under wraps...forever. i think the sampling of devs participating on this board are in the top percentile of self-awareness and frankly, bravery. but there are many more out there who may not even be fully aware of it themselves. and even more who would probably never ever let you know. trust me on that.  |
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Also, you can send out pms to several people at once, if you need to. 
